my new Pedersoli 1795 Springfield

[Rat]

With my Brown Bess accuracy requires a very tight fitting ball patch combo. Also best accuracy is with the ball loaded sprue-down. With Goex and just the patch that will give me about three shots. With a wonder wad and Swiss powder I can get maybe five or six at best.

As most everyone knows my Bloody Bess has long-rifle sights on it, with very thin/fine front blade...so sighting is "precise".

Yes with the original cartridge loads "accuracy" was not good. The Brown Bess, usually a .75-77" bore was loaded with a .690" ball. The French .69 calibre muskets used a .620 or .630" ball. It would not have made sense to have the troops load up the first shot with ball and patch, as then two different sized balls would have to be carried, the draftees were not riflemen, and the muskets had no sights to aim with anyhow...even if the conscripts were inclined to aim....!!!!!!!!!!

I load my musket with paper powder cartridges, and then my patched balls from a loading block...it's very fast but again three or so shots and it's wipe-time. (which is not a problem for hunting or target shooting) My bore seems to mic out exactly at .750", and I use a .735" ball and .018" patch.

There was one musket that was loaded with a pretty heavy charge, but I don't remember which one. Think it was more like 140-150 but I'm not sure. Usually muskets of .69-77" calibre were loaded with around 100 to 110 grains of powder.

Rat

 

[crockett]

That's interesting data to someone like myself who isn't familiar with a smoothbore. I was under the assumption that with a smoothbore you had a lot easier job seating a PRB than with a rifle but if I understand what you are saying, there isn't much difference between a smoothbore and a rifle in that regard. The "easy" loading was dropping an undersized ball down the bore and holding it with the paper wadding on top. Is that true?

 

[Rat]

That's true. And after the barrel got good and fouled it probably did not need anything to hold it down. Again the .75-77" Brown Besses used a .69 caliber ball, and the .69 caliber muskets used something around a .62", I forget.

In my experience, a smooth bore definately goes LESS shots with a tight ball and patch, because the fouling (this is my theory) has no where to go, such as into the grooves, and the bore and ball/patch is in 100% contact. In a rifled bore, just the lands are in contact with the ball on the way down, so you are fighting less contact area between ball and bore.

That's my story anyhow based on just one smoothbore, the Jaeger and a couple minnie rifles. When I shot the Jaeger the other day, ball and patch fit to the bore was about the same as what I use/load in Bess, pretty tight but loading effort never increased from shot #1 to shot #10 or so. With Bess, it definately gets real tight after three, four or more shots, and I thik six would be the absolute max. (and that's with switching to a smaller patch in there somewhere) For me, again no problem, I don't anticipate getting more than one shot at a big game animal, with possibly a follow up shot. At the range...I've got all day to enjoy shooting, wipe between every three, burn powder, shoot the bull and watch the world go by.

On the other hand, I was very pleasently suprised to find how easy a flintlock smoothbore cleaned up. Almost makes you feel guilty!

And it was nice, with the Jaeger, to just keep poking balls down the barrel. But when shooting Bloody Bess, I don't mind a little extra care, if that's what the old girl wants.

Rat

 

[Rebel]

Rat, i fired my .20 ga. N.W. Tradegun the other day using 80 grs. of Goex 2f powder. I fired at least 10 shots without swabbing the bore. I used an overpowder wad with a 1/16" hole drilled through the middle for air to escape and a 1/2" fiber cushion wad glued to it then lubed, so you only have to handle the 1 wad combo, then a .600 patched round ball, and rammed it all down at once, so only 1 pass with the ramrod. I think the overpowder wad pushes the fouling from the previous shot down the barrel, and the lubed cushion wad re-lubes the bore to keep the fouling soft. I could have fired more shots without swabbing if i had wanted to. You might try the overpowder and cushion wads and see if they help you fire more shots without swabbing.

 

[crockett]

This is real interesting stuff, to me at least. You read a lot about how fast muskets are to reload, etc. Only thing to have in an armed conflict, etc. I think Daniel Boone used one at the Battle of Blue Licks. In any event, as I now understand matters the smoothbore gives you three options. First, use it in a military type mode with a paper cartridge and an undersized ball. Loads fast but accuracy not good. Second mode, use a patched ball but a rifle may actually load as easily and require less wipes. Third, use shot but again the wads, etc require wipes, etc.
It seems to me you could get a second tang bolt and silver solder on a rear sight. You could put in the replacement tang bolt anytime you wanted to go hunting with a PRB.

 

[Rat]

Rebel that is interesting, will have to play around with that this summer just for fun. Makes sense and I have a whole bag of 1/2" fiber wads. The logic of it makes great sense.

Yes sights on a smoothie is a whole other story, and can stir quite a debate! I'll just say that even though I probably could not take my Bess to a re-enactment, the generally period correct sights look very much at home on her...they don't look out of place. (Being a carbine, she's probably not "correct" to begin with anyhow)

Also, as I don't even have any friends that shoot traditional ML, and as every man-jack I meet in the woods is moving fast and packing an in-line, I'm not really very worried about, or in the position of someone looking at my musket and telling me it "shouldn't" have rifle sights on it. I hunt birds with modern shot-gun shooters, who all call my Brown Bess carbine "the Blunderbuss". !! People I rifle hunt with, are yes, gag...inline shooters...except for one.

:curse:

A changeable tang-bolt rear sight is a interesting idea, but a notch sight that far back would not work well, I don't believe. A peep would, but that would sure not look "at home" on a flintlock. It would also have to sit pretty high, as most tangs drop down below the level of the bore...it migh wind up looking pretty...FUNKY!! A think a person has to either decide to go with sights...or not.

IMHO, period correct rifle sights on any smoothbore or musket look great, and have a dramatic effect on accuracy. Obviously if you put some big junky sights on the weapon, that would not be good. I only see a couple drawbacks to some nice, small, period correct open sights. If you are going to enter a smoothbore match, the gun will probably be "illegal".

If you are going to be a reenactor...then of course the weapon has to be very "PC", even though PC may not actually be "correct" in reality...more politically correct than period correct. (there exists, in the NRA museum, an original Brown Bess with rifle sights on it)

The only other drawback I can think of would be the crowd one "hangs with" for shooting or hunting. If the group is really pissy about "correctness" that could cause some grief. But I think most traditional shooters are good people, and won't lose too much sleep about someone showing up at the range or the hunt with a nice musket or smoothie that has nice sights on it that look like they belong there, whether or not they do "in theory".

Now if someone showed up with great big old adjustable sights, or fiber optics...then even I would have to PUKE!!

Rat

 

[adski]

How about a rear sight like this one:
Sharpshooter musket M/1788

 

I believe the standard Bess ctg. used a .72 ball, while up until about 1820, the US .69's used .64, then switching to .65, in the ctg. The paper ctg. helped take up some windage, but accuracy was still pretty poor at 100yds. The increase suposedly allowed one hit on a turkey sized target at 100yds 1 out of 4 shots.
: Buck and ball ctgs. (1ball, 3-00 or 000 buck) were very popular for increased hitting reasons as well as straight buckshot loads (15-double 0 or triple 0 buck) for night duty when on the trail.
: The powder end was torn off with the teeth, pan primed, then frizzen closed, then powder end of the ctg. was inserted into the muzzle. The rod was used to push the whole works down the barrel onto the powder that had drained out. This was a very fast method of loading and works well today, in both smoothbores as well as in large bored rifles.

 

[JackAubrey]

Congradulations on the new addition to your family! I'm jealous! This forum is fantastic! I have a pedersoli Brown bess and there is a wealth of information in these forums! I fire a load of 80 grains volume 2f powder and a .735 ball. I set up a target at 25 yards and made up my paper cartridges.I loaded from the horn on the first shot and ran a PRB downbore, primed w/ 4f and let fly.I hit the target ! I decided to throw all safety precautions to the wind for history sake( this one time!)put the cock at 1/2 cock, pulled a cartrige from my cartridge box,tore it open w/ my teeth, primed the pan w/ a little 2f,closed the frizzen dumped the rest of the powder downbore, then the unpatched .735 ball. I found it interesting that the fouling from the previous shot provided resistance.The shot hit so close to the shot that was patched the holes made a figure 8.It was disconcerting having my hand over a loaded and primed barrel and trusting the half cock but I wanted to try how revolutionary soldiers did it.I later found that even the redcoats loaded from the pouch saving cartridges for warfare or rapid fire.

 

[Wes/Tex]

How about a rear sight like this one.

The Prussian M.1809 musket had a rear sight sweated to the top of the barrel breech. I once had a percussion conversion, the M.1809/39, but had to remember to push the front barrel band to the same place each time...the top of the band had a lump of brass that qualified as a front sight. "Shoot up here amongst us!"

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Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati