MYTH BUSTING: recoil associated with cresent shaped butt plates

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Once when I was a kid barely strong enough to hold it, I snuck my granpap's 1895 Winchester in 405 and one shell out of the house and shot it behind the barn when no one else was home
and just so you know those 95's in 405 still kick like a mule - buddy got one a while back and of course I had to shoot it! I'd forgotten what a ferocious recoil they have....
And I'm not recoil shy - I've shot heavy elephant guns that don't whomp on you that bad.....worst of all I think was my old Winchester M71 in 450 Alaskan, hellacious to shoot, but it was a comfort in big bear country.
FYI - The 95/405 was TR's favorite medicine for lion on his African safari..
 
LaBonte said:
and just so you know those 95's in 405 still kick like a mule - buddy got one a while back and of course I had to shoot it! I'd forgotten what a ferocious recoil they have....
And I'm not recoil shy - I've shot heavy elephant guns that don't whomp on you that bad.....worst of all I think was my old Winchester M71 in 450 Alaskan, hellacious to shoot, but it was a comfort in big bear country.
FYI - The 95/405 was TR's favorite medicine for lion on his African safari..


I shot one recently to reconfirm the memory. All that drop in the stock.....

I've actually got one of the Johnson's earliest M-71 450 Alaskans. It's got an oversize shotgun butt and very little drop at the comb. It doesn't hurt to shoot it, but unless I'm kinda paying attention, it's awfully hard to keep the front foot on the ground when you light it off. Shot it at a steel pig silhouette rigged as a gong at a shooting club open house one time, at the insistence of the club pres. All the 06 and 270 rounds made these nice little dimples in that pig at 100 yards. My 450 ripped it right off the stand and made a crater you could drop a quarter into. The remaining metal at the bottom of the crater was so thin you could bend it with your finger. Last time he invited me to shoot the ole 450 at anything!
 
I have a theory for you Roundball.

I would say that 90% of the guys that like and Use cressent Buttplates are little fellers.

Big ol boys with huge muscles and an extreme masculine physique like myself get hammered with the heel of the buttplate.

HH
 
Headhunter said:
I have a theory for you Roundball.

I would say that 90% of the guys that like and Use cressent Buttplates are little fellers.

Big ol boys with huge muscles and an extreme masculine physique like myself get hammered with the heel of the buttplate.

HH
Well, your can throw that arm chair theory away as size has nothing to do with it...I'm 6'4" x 220, and I use max/near-max loads...they're like shooting a .30-30 as far as I'm concerned...it's all how you mount it.
 
Well I don't think there is any "myth busting" here as there is no myth involved. Everyone is saying the same thing. "One can manage a crescent butt if one mounts the gun correctly. That's all well and good at the range but in hunting one often shoots from varied positions, standing, leaning around a tree, kneeling, sitting, even wrong handed with all concentration on making a good shot and no thought as to how and where the buttplate sits.
The shooting position sometimes requires the butt in the shoulder pocket. I'd bet those who like the crescent butt have never fired a hard kicking gun from prone.
A flat buttplate permits one to adopt whatever position is required and to snap the butt to the shoulder quickly and smoothly. It also does not chip off the toe of the stock if the gun is dropped on it's butt and does not pick up a gob of mud when set on the ground for loading.
I got my first shotgun at age 10 and I spent hours just snapping the gun to my shoulder and pointing at objects like light switches or flies on the wall, just perfecting the habit of a good swift and smooth gun mount. I shortly there after acquired my first ML with crescent butt and learned to mount that properly as well but when game is in sight I revert to my shotgun mount and I don't want to have to stop and think "not with this gun".
Since there is no advantage to the crescent butt I see no reason to put up with it's disadvantages. If you'll watch an old movie "The Kentuckian" with Burt Lancaster, you'll see the proper use of a crescent buttplate. The long, pointed heel is used to smash the forehead of a fallen foe! I haven't found much need for that feature. :haha:
 
Joe, based on your assessment, I'd agree that you are one who should not use a rifle with a cresent shaped buttplate.
 
To begin w/, the TC rifles don't have the extreme crescents seen on original Hawkens. I've got a TC "Hawken" and have no problem shooting it like I do all my other rifles and shotguns...on the chest. Built a Stith hawken w/ a very deep crescent BP that was copied off an original and requires an upper arm hold otherwise it's very uncomfortable to shoot. After all the years of shooting rifles and shotguns, I'm not about to change to an arm hold because of a buttplate style that was really a fad. Many styles of rifles and rifle features have been discarded through the years because they weren't natural like the Roman nose stocks and original thin, deep, crescent Hawken buttplates. Probably the most comfortable shooting "old arms" are the fowlers and early Lancasters and they had stock shapes that were later incorporated into modern arms. Fowlers and later on shotguns require fast accurate mounting on fast flying birds and none have crescent BPs and I'm sure if the crescent BPs had advantages, they would have been used. I don't think some shooters have seen the really deep, thin crescent BPs on original Hawkens....it surprised the heck out of me.To each his own, but having to distort one's body because of a feature that was discarded long ago, doesn't appeal to me.....Fred
 
Its all about what works for the individual shooter. Thats why we have so many choices. All I have anymore are Hawken Rifles, and we all know what buttplate they have.

Everyone knows that Chevy is better than Ford anyway. :v

HH
 
I agree....shoot whatever you like, but TC rifles are a poor example of a truly deep, thin crescent Hawken style buttplate. A joking rejoinder to a serious discussion is encountered way too often on this forum and displays a lack of....? None of the "so called Hawken" replicas have anywhere near the extreme features of the original Hawken BPs for good reason....if they imitated a true Hawken buttplate, people would complain of being uncomfortable when shooting and the manufacturers would sell far fewer rifles. I take it that this is a serious discussion, but if anybody lacks logical, opposing arguements, then give w/ the jokes and derision.....Fred
 
Chevy made the crescent buttplates? I always thought they made the fowler style. I thought Ford made the transitional style. Whadda ya know! :v
 
flehto said:
"...having to distort one's body because of a feature..."

With all the respect coming due to you Fred...
YOUR comment brought it on...so please don't now try to crawfish and lay this off on somebody else...you said it, so own it.

:v
 
Headhunter said:
6'4" and 220? You better pack a lunch little feller!

HH

Hmmmm - this is gonna be interesting..... I'm 6'4" and 280, I'm expecting my Lyman GPR kit to be delivered any minute now. May need to make a modification to that butplate....
 
I was taught correctly that gun mounting should entail as few movements as possible and shouldering a gun in line w/ the eye accomplishes this and requires a chest mount. An upper arm mount requires outboard head movement which is unnatural and is a deterrent to fast shooting. Observe or ask any wing shooter and you'll receive an education on proper gun mounting. You shoot TC rifles a lot, but they don't have the extremely thin, deep crescents and shouldn't require upper arm mounting. Just trying to have a serious discussion w/o the debris....Fred
 

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