N W Trade guns

[barracudadave67]

Hi All
I,m just finishing up a Pedersoli Brown Bess Carbine Kit (Dixie Gun Works N W trade Gun). I,m looking hard at the Pedersoli N W Tade gun kit, or the Sitting Fox N W Trade gun kit.
Was wondering what you gun builders think of each. The only thing I don't like on the Sitting Fox kit is the way the barrel tang screw comes up from the bottom of the trigger guard, at a weird angle, and is threaded into the BBl tang, which I guess is correct,on a lot of originals.

The Pedersoli kit was easy to do, I'm just finishing the stock on it now. I don't know much about the Sitting Fox kits. Has anyone made one of thier kits,??, if so what do you think,???.

Thanks Dave

 

[3Setters]

I have a Sitting Fox NW Trade gun on order, so I wont be able to answer that question for at least 6 months. I went with Sitting Fox because its supposed to be under 6 pounds. Hopefully someone else will give us both a good answer

 

[tenngun]

I was very happy with Sitting Fox, but their NWG ain’t a real accurate copy. Track of the wolf or Pecotonic are better copies. And if it was important to you you can get the stamps
Yes the tang screw is funky but was how the guns were made. And Dutch guns did this too, remained in style well into the eighteenth century

 

[GoodRabbitPilgrim]

Can't speak for the kit but the Pedersoli trade gun is a great shooter, I really like mine.

 

[Steve Martin]

I have a Sitting Fox NW Trade gun in 20ga/.62 caliber and I LOVE it. It's so light that the first time I picked it up I thought they must have used plastic for the stock! Seriously, it is the best handling, easiest pointing and most accurate smoothbore I have ever owned. I bought it from it's first owner thru an estate sale so I did not have it built myself and in fact I'm not even sure how old it is but I can't say enough good about the gun so yeah, I would vote for the Sitting Fox but that's just my personal experience and I should add I have never owned the Pedersoli Trade gun to compare the two.

 

[tenngun]

Ray at sitting Fox will bend over backwards to do right by you

 

[3Setters]

Steve, what length barrel is on your NWTG? I was going to get a shorter barrel to save on weight but finally settled on a 36 inch barrel for better balance.

 

[stank]

I have never ordered anything from sitting fox so I have no personal experience with them. 3 people I know have ordered from them recently and have had nothing but problems with the stocks and customer service. Until I start hearing better reviews I will not give them my business. Perhaps if you live near them you could visit them and inspect your items before you buy.

 

[mikesto44]

Hopefully this helps all of you ordering from Sitting Fox.
The owner is a good guy. But the problems you might encounter is that all work for his kits is not done by him.
A lot of his work is farmed out to people he knows to do the work. Some are good other's not so much. So it's a hit and miss for quality on workmanship..
Just a heads up... Not saying good or bad...Cheers

 

[Snake Pleskin]

Ray at sitting Fox will bend over backwards to do right by you

Do you have a link for the Sitting Fox trade gun etc?

 

[Red Owl]

With a single PRB what kind of groups at 50 yards? On shot for rabbits, etc. what kind of patterns. I've thought about a NW Trade gun as sort of an "everything" option.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I would like to suggest Caywood as an option. He sells Northwest guns, Wilson-style “Chief’s guns” (an earlier English style), and I think two models of French trade guns. He also makes an “English Game Gun” which might be worth considering. All of these can be ordered as kits, assembled “in the white,” or as finished guns. They are probably more expensive than the competition but he uses best-quality components and you get what you pay for.

Regarding that tang screw coming up from below at a wonky angle, that is how the originals were made. The early ones, anyway. Some of the later Northwest guns were built with the tang screw going downward, but the “classic” Northwest gun was the older style. This looks odd to us now, but was perfectly acceptable in its day, which brings us around to a recent conversation on this forum that we had about early scalping knives… do you want an authentic gun (or knife), which gives the experience of using artifacts like the old-timers had, or do you want a gun (or knife) that conforms to your own modern views of what’s right? I’m not being judgmental. I’m simply pointing out a choice to be made.

As for how these guns shoot, all I can say is that they are flintlock smoothbores. You start with a reliable lock and a proper barrel and you work up a load. With smoothbores, the way the stock fits the shooter is important. I am small by today’s standards, but about the size of an average white fellow in the late 18th-early 19th century. I have two Northwest guns, one NSW and one Caywood, both made like originals, and both shoulder like a dream. However, the originals were intended for the Indian trade, and a lot of the northern tribesmen were bigger than the white trappers and traders. They complained that the stocks of the trade guns were “too straight,” without enough drop. When Henry Leman started building Northwest guns, he took this into account. I believe the late Doc White discussed this in one of the articles on his website. When GRRW started building Northwest guns, the buttstocks were patterned on the Leman model, to better fit today’s average modern physique.

If you are shopping for a trade gun, it may be worthwhile to check some of the stock dimensions (drop, cast, and LOP) so you can order the one that best fits you. A gun that fits you is a pleasure to shoot, and will help you shoot to your potential.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[dd832]

This is a stock drop chart I copied from somewhere (maybe here?), anyway all the guns are English though except one:


Mike

 

[barracudadave67]

Well. After some saving of my dineros, and searching around, I ordered an Indian Trade Gun kit, from Dixie Gun Works. It should arrive early next week.
Now i have a winter project, along with my Green River Knife and sheath making endevor.

Dave

 

[dd832]

This is a stock drop chart I copied from somewhere (maybe here?), anyway all the guns are English though except one:
View attachment 171141

Mike

This chart was copied from a post by Notchy Bob - I found the chart today in an old post & just thought it should be noted. Thanks Bob.

 

[hep]

I would like to suggest Caywood as an option. He sells Northwest guns, Wilson-style “Chief’s guns” (an earlier English style), and I think two models of French trade guns. He also makes an “English Game Gun” which might be worth considering. All of these can be ordered as kits, assembled “in the white,” or as finished guns. They are probably more expensive than the competition but he uses best-quality components and you get what you pay for.

Regarding that tang screw coming up from below at a wonky angle, that is how the originals were made. The early ones, anyway. Some of the later Northwest guns were built with the tang screw going downward, but the “classic” Northwest gun was the older style. This looks odd to us now, but was perfectly acceptable in its day, which brings us around to a recent conversation on this forum that we had about early scalping knives… do you want an authentic gun (or knife), which gives the experience of using artifacts like the old-timers had, or do you want a gun (or knife) that conforms to your own modern views of what’s right? I’m not being judgmental. I’m simply pointing out a choice to be made.

As for how these guns shoot, all I can say is that they are flintlock smoothbores. You start with a reliable lock and a proper barrel and you work up a load. With smoothbores, the way the stock fits the shooter is important. I am small by today’s standards, but about the size of an average white fellow in the late 18th-early 19th century. I have two Northwest guns, one NSW and one Caywood, both made like originals, and both shoulder like a dream. However, the originals were intended for the Indian trade, and a lot of the northern tribesmen were bigger than the white trappers and traders. They complained that the stocks of the trade guns were “too straight,” without enough drop. When Henry Leman started building Northwest guns, he took this into account. I believe the late Doc White discussed this in one of the articles on his website. When GRRW started building Northwest guns, the buttstocks were patterned on the Leman model, to better fit today’s average modern physique.

If you are shopping for a trade gun, it may be worthwhile to check some of the stock dimensions (drop, cast, and LOP) so you can order the one that best fits you. A gun that fits you is a pleasure to shoot, and will help you shoot to your potential.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

i built guns for green river rifle work's in the 1970s. northwest trade guns, otr's astorian's, leman trade rifle, all i remember is we tried to build two guns a month. shipped guns all over the world. our guns were sought-after. every part on those guns had to be custom fit buy hand. the only power tools we had were drill press and a old lathe. we also did repairs custom work and showed up at rendezvous to complete with our product's. that was the glory day's of muzzle loading and buckskinning .