Navy Arms 58 cal Buffalo Hunter

[Bama Reb]

Picked one up yesterday for $200, two hour drive one way to go pick it up. Anybody else got one and what kind of loads do you recommend for it, bullets or round balls? Plan on using it next deer season...

 

[Tasbay]

They are a shortened Zouave and should have the 1-66 twist. Shoot well with round ball and you can pack them up with up to 120 grains of FF.
Offered one a while ago but as I already had the Zoil Zauave and CVA Mountain rifle in 58cal I passed on the deal.

 

[SDSmlf]

Well, if you want shoot really big game, Val Forgett (owner of Navy Arms) used one in Africa in 1973 as his ‘less heavily loaded’ gun to take a number of animals. His load in the Buffalo Hunter was a 610 grain Minie over 125 grains of fff. In the heaver Navy Arms Hawken I believe he tried up to 200 grains of fff powder under the same Minie but settled on 180 grains of fff in that gun, if my memory is correct. You can read about his African adventure in the Lyman Black Powder Handbook.

 

[Eddie2002]

I've one that shoots a 535 grain minnie ball over 60 grains of 3F nicely at 50 yds. Haven't shot it much with a PRB but you should get a range rod no matter what you shoot, the factory ram rod looks a little flimsy.

 

[Zonie]

Well, if you want shoot really big game, Val Forgett (owner of Navy Arms) used one in Africa in 1973 as his ‘less heavily loaded’ gun to take a number of animals. His load in the Buffalo Hunter was a 610 grain Minie over 125 grains of fff. In the heaver Navy Arms Hawken I believe he tried up to 200 grains of fff powder under the same Minie but settled on 180 grains of fff in that gun, if my memory is correct. You can read about his African adventure in the Lyman Black Powder Handbook.

I guess that might be OK for someone who knows what he's doing but really, powder loads like that is, IMO , stupid.

I guess he was thinking about the size and danger of hunting in Africa?

Usually, anything over 70 or 80 grains of black powder will blow the skirt of a Minie' ball out, totally ruining its accuracy.

If the gun were mine, I would use 60 grains of powder under a Minie' bullet or, if I was shooting a patched roundball I might go up to 100 grains. The rifling grooves in most of the guns that were basically cut down rifled muskets is shallow so a roundball needs a tight patch/ball combination like a .570 ball and a .018 thick patch to be accurate beyond 50 yards.

 

[tenngun]

I think the one he shot the 180 grain loads in was a thick walled ‘Hawken’ with a 600 grain thick walled minnie, and shot an elephant with it. He said it’s performance was very close to a .458 magnum. The overloaded Zouave he used for ‘small game’ lions antalope, Cape buffalo and such.
This was the seventies when we were being told ball weren’t no good for any thing bigger then a a bunny... at close range.

 

[SDSmlf]

I guess that might be OK for someone who knows what he's doing but really, powder loads like that is, IMO , stupid.

I guess he was thinking about the size and danger of hunting in Africa?

Usually, anything over 70 or 80 grains of black powder will blow the skirt of a Minie' ball out, totally ruining its accuracy.

If the gun were mine, I would use 60 grains of powder under a Minie' bullet or, if I was shooting a patched roundball I might go up to 100 grains. The rifling grooves in most of the guns that were basically cut down rifled muskets is shallow so a roundball needs a tight patch/ball combination like a .570 ball and a .018 thick patch to be accurate beyond 50 yards.

The loads used by Forgott seem to come up when these particular Navy Arms 58 guns are discussed, and while beyond what most shoot, wouldn’t call them stupid. Heavy, yes. Hard kicking yes. Actually experienced shooting a Buffalo Hunter (the lighter weight gun of the two) with a heavy skirted Minie over 125 grains of fff, and surprisingly, it was milder on my shoulder than a 12 gauge 3” turkey load. Not suggesting loading these Navy Arms guns up for shooting squirrels, but they seem more than adequate for the loads Lyman originally published in 1974 or so. That said, personally have no desire or need to shoot such loads on a regular basis, but if one enjoys knocking the plaque off their teeth, the Navy Arms muzzleloaders appears to hold up to the task.

 

[M. De Land]

I think the one he shot the 180 grain loads in was a thick walled ‘Hawken’ with a 600 grain thick walled minnie, and shot an elephant with it. He said it’s performance was very close to a .458 magnum. The overloaded Zouave he used for ‘small game’ lions antalope, Cape buffalo and such.
This was the seventies when we were being told ball weren’t no good for any thing bigger then a a bunny... at close range.

I own one like the heavy rifle Fogett used, it's called the Hawken Hunter and has a heavy 26 inch barrel with 3 lands and a pitch of 1:60. My load using a 620 grain Maxi is 150 grains of 2F and the chronograph gave it a muzzle velocity of 1400 fps. I had to use a past shoulder pad on the bench to shoot it and my what a recoil. Make your eyes water but it would hold 2 inches with that load from the bench at 100 yards.
I also had a Buffalo Hunter for a while and it was not as accurate as the Hawken Hunter, so I sold it. I think Forgett used a maxi in the big gun to take Elephant ,Rhino and Hippo.

 

[Britsmoothy]

They are good. Mine was the smoothbored version and it shot very well indeed with ball.

 

[hanshi]

I had the Navy Arms zouave and used mostly 60 grains of 3F and a 505 grn minie. It shot really well with that and a prb load with a heavier charge.

 

[SPQR70AD]

I have an Italian .58 cal Hawken with 1x48 twist. shot round balls OK but I got the Lee R.E.A.L. bullet mold and shot tiny groups with them. mileage may vary. so easy to load without using sloppy PIA patches ball starters and they carry a lot of lead. I do not hate patches and RB's when I am in the mood really enjoy them

 

[SPQR70AD]

I had the Navy Arms zouave and used mostly 60 grains of 3F and a 505 grn minie. It shot really well with that and a prb load with a heavier charge.

I got a Zouave also. the barrel is not heavy duty like an inch across the flats Hawken barrel. so like you I never used more then 60 grains

 

[pchwcf50110]

I think the one he shot the 180 grain loads in was a thick walled ‘Hawken’ with a 600 grain thick walled minnie, and shot an elephant with it. He said it’s performance was very close to a .458 magnum. The overloaded Zouave he used for ‘small game’ lions antalope, Cape buffalo and such.
This was the seventies when we were being told ball weren’t no good for any thing bigger then a a bunny... at close range.

Always remember that the PH had to shoot Val's elephant with an actual .458 Win Mag to kill it. And his claim that cape buffalo weigh 4-5000 lbs. is just a slight (!) exaggeration, 1500 lbs. is more like it.