Navy Arms 58cal percussion pistol

[RodPatten]

Hi all! New to forums, and BP shooting. Shot a revolver many years ago, but that gun was unfortunately subjected to a humid storage environment and will need much tlc to shoot again.

I found this single shot pistol, liked it and want to start shooting. I have everything I need to shoot but powder. Area had a run on bp over forth of july and are shops are still restocking.

I have tried different ways of searching and didn't seem to find what I'm looking for so I thouht I would ask.

Pistol is an Antonio Zoli & Co. Made in Italy 58 cal percussion. Nice condition. Navy Arms and a crest on hammer side.

Really just wondering where I can find tear down diagram, powder charge recommend for round ball, or Mini ball.

Want to go through pistol make sure everything is cleaned up and oiled or greased before I shoot.

In south central Kansas. Shoot at Cheney range often. And really just want to try something a bit different.

Try and post some pics soon as I go learn how.

Thanks
Rod

 

[RodPatten]

https://photos.smugmug.com/Pistol/i-525mrFx/0/b3a75e4e/S/20170729_204958-S.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/Pistol/i-LZsmmHc/0/d75c3600/M/20170729_205256-M.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/Pistol/i-C2CRsQj/0/234f162c/M/20170729_205338-M.jpg https://photos.smugmug.com/Pistol/i-bVMzLWz/0/62d8e4f3/M/20170729_205429-M.jpg

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the forum.

At least one place on the web says your gun is a recreation of the 1855 Harpers Ferry dragoon pistol.

Flayderman's Guide says the 1855 Dragoon was only made by Springfield.

Aside from that trivia, the 1855 Dragoon pistol was a .58 caliber Pistol-Carbine with a removable stock.

It had a 12 inch long barrel with a two-leaf rear sight and was a percussion type gun.

It was produced from 1855 thru 1857 and was intended for use by the Calvary as a pistol on horseback and as a carbine when the soldier was on the ground.

As a general rule of thumb, pistol loads were about 1/2 of the size of musket loads so, you pistol should be happy with a 30 grain powder load.

Because it is percussion, it will shoot any of the synthetic black powders like Pyrodex or 777.

Your best bet for a projectile would be (in my opinion) a .570 diameter lead roundball patched in a .010-.015 thick cotton patch.

Although it will shoot a Minie' bullet, I don't recommend doing it.
Those heavy slugs can easily overstress the stock and damage it.
Even if it doesn't damage the gun, shooting a 320 to 500+ grain slug out of a pistol won't be fun.
The 278 grain .570 diameter roundball will get your attention all by itself. :grin:

Have fun with it.

 

[nkbj]

Lyman #575494 might be a good one to try.
It weights 315 grains, has a skirt designed for low powder charges and might provide the shooter with the load and fire characteristics minies were created to provide.
But (that giant among words in the English language) when handling the pistol like a pistol shooter usually does don't trust the bullet to stay on the powder charge unless you use an interference fit with a sliver of cloth.

 

[mooman76]

I usually use starting loads equal to caliber and half that for pistol and small caliber rifles. Meaning for a 58 pistol start with 30gr and if it was a rifle 60gr. You could start there and go up a few grains at a time or even go down some or start lower like 20 or 25gr. Keep in mind this is not necessarily the best load, just a starting point.

 

[RodPatten]

Thanks guys. I have a good starting point now. Hopefully I'll get to shoot it soon. Too many other things that need done first. Will reply how it goes.

Thanks,
Rod

 

[zimmerstutzen]

it shares some of the same parts with the Zoli Zouave reproduction. I have the detachable shoulder stock for mine. I have had 4 of them over the years. Although some fire minnie balls, I would stick with a patched 570 round ball. Nipples for number 11 perc caps are available for the gun. The trigger pull is sometimes a bear together with the front heavy nature of the pistol. Had one that was a real sweetheart off the bench. Even with the less than great sights I kept them in a nine inch circle at 100 yds.

 

[azmntman]

Thats Dang good fer a pistol :shocked2:
:thumbsup:

 

[RodPatten]

Pistol cleaned up great. Was easy since it was really clean when I bought it. Just some handling grime on outside of barrel. Inside is good, swabbed down with cleaner and oil, good to go.

The balls i got with the pistol are marked .575 on the bag, he said to use the thin patches, so i bought .005 lubed patches.

Got everything i need but the powder. So soon as i can free up some cash, too many other projects going, i will get to shoot it.

9 inches at 100 yrds! I will be thrilled if i get that at 25.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

that nine inches was off a shooting bench and rest. Not that spectacular. Had pistols capable of better. Had a 14 inch 45 caliber barrel on a pistol that would do about 6 inches at 100 yds. Again from a rest. Best I could do with a one hand hold with the Zoli at 50 yds was about 12 inches.

 

[Wes/Tex]

The gun itself is a bit of put-together of ideas. The original M.1855 had the Maynard tape primer lock and a big old ring in the butt, but hey...it's fun to shoot. I had one for many years that did fairly well with a .570" ball and patch of whatever I could sneak from my Mom's clothes patching material hoard! :wink: :haha: Tried everything from 30 to 70 grains and stuck with 40...less ear ringing and thunder!

Because I can never leave anything alone, I tried it with the old standard #575213 Minie in the 30 to 60 FFg range. At pistol range they all worked and I'm sure the 60 grain load would knock a Bambi over fairly well. Got half a dozen of the big #57730 Lyman Minies from another shooter and upped the last two to 50 grains of FFg and that was plenty brother. :shocked2:

If you use patched ball you'll need a tight combo. The barrel of the pistol is the same shallow and wide rifling as the Zouave and is designed for skirted Minie projectiles. Never tried seriously hunting with mine but it knocks big chunks out of bunnies! It will also fill the Astrodome with smoke if fired off with a huge blank charge along with about a dozen revolver cylinders in a between game show at a double header! Long story! :rotf:

 

[cynthialee]

A tight patch will indeed tighten the group right up...but it also stresses the gun stock and it is going to break.
With these pistols it is wiser to sacrifice a little accuracy to save wear and tear on that pistol.
Now if one were to devise a loading stand that gripped the pistol by the body of the pistol and placed no pressure on the butt then one could reduce loading stress. But that tight patch will increase pressure in the gun and increase bullet velocity, which will also stress the pistol and eventually lead to a break.

What happens is you shoot the pistol for a long time, no issues it is a great pistol. You are having a great day at the range or on the hunt, then you take a shot or are just loading the thing then suddenly...SNAP! Better have a spare gun on hand, your day at the range or hunt just came to an end. Ask me how I know...

When I load a pistol I go with a size thinner patch than I would prefer if the gun was a rifle.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Yes the gun's rifling will require a good fit, but not necessarily all that tight. Even with the shallow rifling, it is doubtful that you will be using a charge of the kind that will cause the ball to "strip" through the rifling. With a good fit, there is still an amount of obturation from ignition that will swage the ball into a better fit. As Cynthialee correctly points out, too many pistols are broken at the grip by the pounding of tight loads into the muzzle. Particularly when the butt of the pistol grip is only supported on the shooting bench and not in a stand that supports the grip properly. While the Zoli pistol referenced in the post probably has more grip strength than most other pistols simply due to it's girth, why risk cracking the grip? I have found that about 15 lbs pressure is the most it should take to start the ball, preferably a bit less.

 

[RodPatten]

I have Goex 3f now so I may get to try it this weekend.

Understand fully the concern about loading and supporting the pistol. Is there a stand available. I think i could make one easy enough.

Will start with what you aĺl have recomended. This thing will be fun to shoot. No plans to hunt or get serious with target shooting. Just occasional recreation shooting.

Thanks

 

[cynthialee]

I have Goex 3f now so I may get to try it this weekend.

Understand fully the concern about loading and supporting the pistol. Is there a stand available. I think i could make one easy enough.

Will start with what you aĺl have recomended. This thing will be fun to shoot. No plans to hunt or get serious with target shooting. Just occasional recreation shooting.

Thanks

famous last words, you shoot that gun and you are going to catch the fever; and it progresses over the years. Then one day you realize that you have enough old guns on hand to outfit a small band of pilgrims with a notebook full of shooting notes for each one of those guns...

 

[azmntman]

:metoo: and thats a goood thing :grin:

 

[Artificer]

With sincere empathy with Miss Cynthialee breaking the stock on her pistol, as I shattered the wrist of my old Brown Bess Carbine, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread.

In the early to mid 80's, I was interested in getting one of these Pistol Carbines complete with the butt stock to use in "Civil War Tacticals" as we called them or "War Games" in more common vernacular. Since I was portraying an Officer, I was typically armed with a M1850 Sword and Colt Navy Revolver, but there was no easy way to reload the Revolver during a tactical. I figured a pistol carbine and butt stock would be great to use, because I could reload it when necessary and have the revolver as back up with the sword being left in camp. However, by that time, the price of the pistol and butt stock was WAY too high, as they were no longer making the pistols or butt stocks.

Now most of my shooting of it would have been with blanks, but I would have also fired some live rounds with it. I figured if it was accurate enough and I did a trigger job on it, it might be neat to use for deer hunting. I have often wondered about actually firing these guns, so I very much appreciate this thread.

BTW, College Hill Arsenal did a good write up on the M 1855 Pistol Carbine here: http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=656

Gus

 

[M. De Land]

This .54 horse pistol has a reinforcing rod up through the grip and under the tang.Never did get around to staining the hole plug.


That .58 would be a good candidate for this treatment me thinks.

 

[cynthialee]

That is a great idea. Fix the issue before it becomes an issue!

 

[Artificer]

That was a good idea, especially for a grip that straight.

If the butt stock actually snapped in two, then an even stronger reinforcement can be done. One can use a threaded brass rod by making holes in both pieces. Then flare the holes a bit away from the line where it busted. When you fill the holes with Accra glass and the threaded rod, the Accra glass with form sort of an internal hour glass shape or "I" beam inside the grip that will make sure it will never break there again.

Gus