Navy Arms Percussion caps

[NavyDoc76-80]

The nipples shown were the wrong thread size to disregard.

 

[flconch53]

The nipples shown were the wrong thread size to disregard.

Ok so now we know you have a rifle not a musket. You said it was Italian so the standard size thd is 6mm x.075 or just 6/75 thd. You would not want winged musket caps. #11 or slightly smaller1075 is what you want. I shoot 1075 in my Pedrosolli.

 

[springfield art]

I was very fortunate today to acquire 5 new old stock unopened tins of percussion caps. Not the ones I was looking for, but I could not pass up the deal.
View attachment 280830View attachment 280831

Pretty old; hope they're still OK! Love those familiar "Olde" labels!!

 

[SDSmlf]

Just wish nipple retailers would label their nipples for the winged cap. Sure, they do for 11’s, but haven’t seen any for winged.

Every place I remember having ordered nipples from made it clear if the nipples were for percussion or musket caps. Here is a screen shot from TOW website.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Ok so now we know you have a rifle not a musket.

Okay, am I that ignorant? How is this not a Musket? Is it not simply a Musket with rifling vs smooth bore? If I googled the difference, it would show a modern rifle versus a Musket, no?

 

[flconch53]

Okay, am I that ignorant? How is this not a Musket? Is it not simply a Musket with rifling vs smooth bore? If I googled the difference, it would show a modern rifle versus a Musket, no?

Muskets were primarily military weapons. One of the big differences was a musket was capable of accepting a bayonet. Look up 1853 Enfield as an example.These were rifled muskets. The 1841 was a smoothbore caplock musket A Brown Bess and Charlville were flint Muskets not rifles.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Muskets were primarily military weapons. One of the big differences was a musket was capable of accepting a bayonet. Look up 1861 Enfield as an example. A Brown Bess and Charlville were flint Muskets not rifles.

The learning curve never ends.

 

[flconch53]

The learning curve never ends.

I just edited my post to help more. There is alot to learn that is why some many of us are consumed with muzzleloading .

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

I just edited my post to help more. There is alot to learn that is why some many of us are consumed with muzzleloading .

Ha! Yeah, I got that way with reloading, well let’s just say reloading has been put to the side lately.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Every place I remember having ordered nipples from made it clear if the nipples were for percussion or musket caps. Here is a screen shot from TOW website.
View attachment 369442

What? Not Rifle caps? Oye

 

[Grenadier1758]

Are you saying 11’s are not for Muskets. Getting a little frustrated learning the hard way. My musket was missing the nipple. Ordered several, one to install and a few backups. Turned out to be wrong thread size. Ordered new with correct thread size, and for #11 caps. Are you saying I ordered wrong again? That muskets don’t use #11 caps? Is this a SNAFU?
….

If your setting off the main charge with the number 11 caps, you are not using the wrong caps. The Military muskets were designed for the much larger musket caps as they are easier to handle than the #11 caps. We shouldn't be trying to reload when someone is shooting at us, so we can use #11 caps. When I shot a 58 caliber Zouave, it came with a nipple for a musket cap and a nipple for the #11 cap. Mine was designed for reenacting blank shooting and the through holes for the nipples were very large and shooting a Minie' ball would generate enough back pressure to cock the firearm. I replaced the original nipples to get a smaller sized through hole. I mostly used the #11 nipple. Once I discovered flint locks, I decided that I'd let someone else enjoy shooting the Zouave Rifle.

To answer the question, muskets were used during the American Civil war and had nipples installed that used the larger musket caps. The nipples can be used with #11 caps are not wrong for shooting, but they would be for stitch counting reenacting purposes. In my opinion, you did not order the wrong nipple.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Ok so now we know you have a rifle not a musket. You said it was Italian so the standard size thd is 6mm x.075 or just 6/75 thd. You would not want winged musket caps. #11 or slightly smaller1075 is what you want. I shoot 1075 in my Pedrosolli.

As I have stated earlier, "It's never that easy." Some Italian firearms will use a metric threaded nipple which may be 6-0.75 or 6-1.00. Then most Pedersoli percussion firearms will use 1/4-28 threads. My CVA Mountain Rifle uses a nipple with 6x1.00 mm threads.

Knowing that you have a rifle, not a musket, the #11 caps should be preferred. There are shooters that can't obtain the easy to ignite black powder and are using the easier to obtain the hard to ignite substitute powders. The long flash channel separated the nipple seat from the powder charge and some #11 caps are not hot enough to reliably set off the main charge. To that end, some #11 nipples have been developed to improve the transfer of heat from the nipple seat to the powder charge. Brands such as Red Hot, Spit Fire or Hot Shots were designed to ignite Pyrodex especially when used with magnum caps. Another choice was to use a nipple designed for use with a much larger musket cap with more priming compound.

It's a matter of a highly technical difference to get all wrapped up with the difference between a musket and a rifle. To most of us here on the Forum, musket is a term for a military firearm that can be rifled or smooth bored. A rifle is a term for a civilian purpose firearm that has a rifled bore to stabilize the projectile fired. For us, that's generally a round ball. For many, a musket is any muzzle loading firearm either smooth bored or rifle bored. One of the learning experiences is learning the language of traditional muzzleloading.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

If your setting off the main charge with the number 11 caps, you are not using the wrong caps. The Military muskets were designed for the much larger musket caps as they are easier to handle than the #11 caps. We shouldn't be trying to reload when someone is shooting at us, so we can use #11 caps. When I shot a 58 caliber Zouave, it came with a nipple for a musket cap and a nipple for the #11 cap. Mine was designed for reenacting blank shooting and the through holes for the nipples were very large and shooting a Minie' ball would generate enough back pressure to cock the firearm. I replaced the original nipples to get a smaller sized through hole. I mostly used the #11 nipple. Once I discovered flint locks, I decided that I'd let someone else enjoy shooting the Zouave Rifle.

To answer the question, muskets were used during the American Civil war and had nipples installed that used the larger musket caps. The nipples can be used with #11 caps are not wrong for shooting, but they would be for stitch counting reenacting purposes. In my opinion, you did not order the wrong nipple.

Okay, I think we are getting somewhere. You said the Military muskets were designed to use the LARGER musket caps. Larger musket caps- does that equate to winged caps one can purchase today? If true, in my research, I have seen nipples designated Military nipples. This would solve that mystery but since I’m trying to figure out a way to use these gifted caps, maybe I’ll quit looking for trouble and move on.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

As I have stated earlier, "It's never that easy." Some Italian firearms will use a metric threaded nipple which may be 6-0.75 or 6-1.00. Then most Pedersoli percussion firearms will use 1/4-28 threads. My CVA Mountain Rifle uses a nipple with 6x1.00 mm threads.

Knowing that you have a rifle, not a musket, the #11 caps should be preferred. There are shooters that can't obtain the easy to ignite black powder and are using the easier to obtain the hard to ignite substitute powders. The long flash channel separated the nipple seat from the powder charge and some #11 caps are not hot enough to reliably set off the main charge. To that end, some #11 nipples have been developed to improve the transfer of heat from the nipple seat to the powder charge. Brands such as Red Hot, Spit Fire or Hot Shots were designed to ignite Pyrodex especially when used with magnum caps. Another choice was to use a nipple designed for use with a much larger musket cap with more priming compound.

It's a matter of a highly technical difference to get all wrapped up with the difference between a musket and a rifle. To most of us here on the Forum, musket is a term for a military firearm that can be rifled or smooth bored. A rifle is a term for a civilian purpose firearm that has a rifled bore to stabilize the projectile fired. For us, that's generally a round ball. For many, a musket is any muzzle loading firearm either smooth bored or rifle bored. One of the learning experiences is learning the language of traditional muzzleloading.

Also I’m batting 1000 on nipple size. M6-1.0 we’re not a good fit. A little wiggly until bottomed out. The 1/4-28 just arrived, though my thread checker said that would work, the new nipples do not fit properly. I’m bummed.

 

[flconch53]

Also I’m batting 1000 on nipple size. M6-1.0 we’re not a good fit. A little wiggly until bottomed out. The 1/4-28 just arrived, though my thread checker said that would work, the new nipples do not fit properly. I’m bummed.

Are they too tight. 6 mm x.75 is close to 1/4 28

 

[SDSmlf]

Also I’m batting 1000 on nipple size. M6-1.0 we’re not a good fit. A little wiggly until bottomed out. The 1/4-28 just arrived, though my thread checker said that would work, the new nipples do not fit properly. I’m bummed.

Thought you had the nipple thread concern worked out?

You completely miss understand. I’m not discussing nipple thread size. I’m discussing nipple diameter vs cap diameter fit, specifically, and specifically regarding the winged percussion caps.

As a general rule of thumb, many contemporary Italian made muzzleloading rifles (yes, there are exceptions, think military muskets and shotguns for example) use 6-.75mm threaded nipple, while many Spanish made examples use a 6-1mm threaded nipple, again with exceptions. Many American production made rifles used 1/4-28, and again there were exceptions.

You said the Military muskets were designed to use the LARGER musket caps. Larger musket caps- does that equate to winged caps one can purchase today?

Musket caps are LARGER than #10 or #11 percussion caps. Here are a couple musket caps, AKA four wing caps, manufactured about 70 years apart. They both work on the same musket cap nipples, the major difference is the older ones are quite corrosive. As with many other manufactured items without strict guidelines and regulations, there are a some variations between manufacturers and even the same manufacturer between lots.

Is there any chance that you could find someone or a group near you to go shooting with to ‘show you the ropes’? Maybe just go watch and listen.

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Are they too tight. 6 mm x.75 is close to 1/4 28

Guess that will have to be my next test. Gonna have to get a screw at hardware store and check first. Running out of options but your size mentioned may be the one. Thanks

 

[NavyDoc76-80]

Thought you had the nipple thread concern worked out?

As a general rule of thumb, many contemporary Italian made muzzleloading rifles (yes, there are exceptions, think military muskets and shotguns for example) use 6-.75mm threaded nipple, while many Spanish made examples use a 6-1mm threaded nipple, again with exceptions. Many American production made rifles used 1/4-28, and again there were exceptions.

Is there any chance that you could find someone or a group near you to go shooting with to ‘show you the ropes’? Maybe just go watch and listen.

Yeah I can read between the lines. A lot to learn. And thanks, 6-.75 will be tested next.