Need help identifying Muzzleloader

[chrisweber1978]

Need help identifying this muzzleloader its stamped 1811 on the barrel with PM above it and either IR or TR next to it. On the bottom of the stock and where the trigger was its stamped TC.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

 

[flintlock75]

Does it have a lock and trigger guard?
It would be more helpfull with those items pictured.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

It appears to be missing the triggerguard and lock, is that true? If so, too bad. Going by the shape of the trigger guard inlet, the date on the buttplate, the proofmarks on the barrel and the general configuration of the stock, it appears to be a US M1795 Type III. It does seem to have the bands and the ramrod, true? Has it been converted to percussion? Sadly, a proper lock with the 1811 date, especially in flint, will be very hard to find and the triggerguard will not be easy either. Good luck, it deserves to be restored.

 

[chrisweber1978]

yes its missing both the triggerguard and lock. Any idea where to get started to look for the parts missing and btw whats the value of a restored gun.

 

[bangfxr]

One place you might try is Dixie Gun Works. Get their catalog as it has more things listed then their web site does.
I agree it should be brought back to its glory.

 

[jsn]

If TRS has those parts in stock that is what I would order.

 

[JV Puleo]

It began life as a Massachusetts Militia Musket. The marks on the barrel are proof marks according to the Massachusetts proof law of 1805. The initials on the left are for the "prover of firearms" and the date it was done.
If you can find a copy of George Moller's "Massachusetts Military Firearms" there are numerous illustrations of these.
"IR" is probably Joel Richardson, prover of Suffolk County. These were all privately owned muskets for militia purposes.

 

[jsn]

Just thought Track of the wolf has a verry good catalog to compare real sized parts to what you have....This might be of some use if restoration is prefered.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

It began life as a Massachusetts Militia Musket. The marks on the barrel are proof marks according to the Massachusetts proof law of 1805. The initials on the left are for the "prover of firearms" and the date it was done.
If you can find a copy of George Moller's "Massachusetts Military Firearms" there are numerous illustrations of these.
"IR" is probably Joel Richardson, prover of Suffolk County. These were all privately owned muskets for militia purposes.

:redface: Thanks for clarifying, while I am a huge fan of Moller's work, I do not own that book. I do own his "American Military Shoulder Arms, Vol. 2: From the 1790s to the End of the Flintlock Period" but did not look under the chapter on state militia arms - my bad as they say. I'm glad you were able to add that excellent insight. The Musket in general outline does seem to be patterned after the M1795 Type III as made at Springfield.

Chris, a good starting place would be Lodgewood Manufacturing at:
http://www.lodgewood.com/

bangfxr, not a bad suggestion. However Dixie might have been able to help with original parts long years ago when Turner Kirkland was still alive but they are pretty much out of the business of providing appropriate antique parts today.

oddfellow's suggestion of TRS might be good, they have the new castings of M1795 parts in their catalog but since it is a state contract arm the Springfield parts may or may not fit. Remember, interchangeability of parts was not standard at the time this gun was made. You can contact TRS to see if they can help. Track carries very little in the way of military style parts.

Wherever you find the Lock and trigger guard, expect them to be surprisingly expensive.

 

[JV Puleo]

Most militia muskets have pinned barrels. About 1/3 of them have barrel bands and are roughly based on the regulation patterns. When this is the case it is most likely that they were assembled from condemned or obsolete armory parts which were regularly sold off by the government. The lock could be a conventional armory style or it could have been a very large English-made lock - similar to the more common rifle/fowler size import locks but just bigger. Those are fairly rare. I've only had one constructed that way while armory style locks are more common. There wouldn't be any need to have a lock dated 1811 but it would be reasonable to have one unmarked or dated before 1811. I don't think such a gun is reasonably restorable. The parts would cost more than the whole gun is worth. These are not "big ticket" items... very few collectors want them. In fact, one of my friends used to joke that when I stopped buying them the bottom fell out of the market. In fact, I suspect the gun was canabalized to provide parts for an armory gun.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

..........one of my friends used to joke that when I stopped buying them the bottom fell out of the market.

I agree, I used to hunt these out myself. You and I spoke briefly on the topic of armory pattern militia muskets when the topic was brought up on the British Militaria Forums site not too long ago, your points were well made there as well.

I suspect the gun was canabalized to provide parts for an armory gun.

You may very well be correct.

 

[James Kelly]

Bottom fell out of the market? Huh. Wish I'da knowed that in '05 when I bought a Massachusetts Militia musket dated 1813. It was that nice prickley walnut that sold me.

A complete description is: "Massachusetts militia musket, dated 1813 on 44-3/16” barrel. Original flint. Mks include near breech 1813 MS (Mass. Militia mark), R.S. (perhaps the contractor’s initials)and a proof mark with eagle facing right (toward lock) and the letters . There is serial number near muzzle, presumably matched the bayonet, and M on the bayonet lug. Missing sling swivels. Original flint." To my eye it is almost identical with a Harpers Ferry musket, also dated 1813. Except the buttplate heel is just a little shorter on the Mass musket, and the frizzen spring finial is more like an arrow or triangle on the Mass musket

I like your musket, whatever low $$ value it may haves. One could make a long-term hobby of picking up parts that might fit. Such as a lock & trigger guard from Pedersoli's Model 1895. Of course, The Rifle Shoppe may have the best stuff, provided you are patient about delivery.

 

[JV Puleo]

Very nice musket... yours was proved by Rufus Sibley and I suspect is one of the 2,500 purchased by the state during the War of 1812, all of which makes it an exceptional example.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

James, very nice! I doubt if the bottom has dropped out on yours.

The triggerguard on the Pedersoli M1795 is all wrong for chrisweber1978's musket since it is the early style but good suggestion. Also, with the rise in "value" of the Euro, the cost for Italian parts is now higher than correct parts sold by TRS and the wait for Italian parts, IF they are available, will be as long as that for anything sold by TRS.