Need help picking a first rifle

[chiphasnoteeth]

As the title suggests, I'm currently looking for my first FLINTLOCK rifle. Specifically flintlock, I don't think percussion rifles would appeal to me, but perhaps I'm wrong. Anyhow, I've been browsing around the Muzzle-Loaders.com website, and I really like the Traditions Hawken Woodsman. I watched a couple review videos on YouTube and it seems like a solid first choice, but I'm absolutely not an expert. I have done research on muzzleloaders, and I think I understand how to maintain and operate a muzzleloader SAFELY. I also have adequate range space in my home with a backdrop and targets, and that seems like a good bit of fun but I might dabble in deerhunting eventually, so I would like to know if that rifle fits my needs. Additionally, is this a relatively safe thing to do? As in, will this gun blow up in my face while using proper charges (70-80gr 2F), fully seated ball, tight screws, etc.? I'm just a kid, at fourteen years of age and that's one of my mother's big, if not the biggest concern; if it's not safe, I can't have it. I have also done research on the laws in my state, and from what I understand, I, a minor, am not allowed to purchase powder or a rifle, but an adult (my mother) is, and I, a minor, am allowed to possess an antique firearm without license on private property. I've talked to my mother about it; she will agree to purchase these things under her name (with the money I've been saving for ages) so that I can use them. Just a question of logistics, I suppose.
Thanks!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

So as long as you load with a proper powder amount, and it's black powder, and you seat the ball against the powder when loading, then the risk is extremely low. Your risk level is much worse if you get in a car and go for a ride, no rifle.

Caliber from .45-.54 will all work. Loads from 60 to 90 grains of 3Fg. LOOK for the most accurate using powder loads within those powder limits. Check with Virginia DNR on deer hunting regs and see if there is a minimum caliber for deer hunting with a muzzleloader...

LD

 

[billraby]

Its a good rifle for the price. Just realize that it might not be as reliable as some of the guns that you have to save for a few more ages to afford. But then it might be just as reliable. It is as safe as you make it. Guns are really good at killing people. So be sure to sign up for a basic gun safety class if you have not already done so. That is extremely important. The gun is not going to blow up in your face. Best thing you can do is to contact a local club. Someone there will be happy to show you how to do it right. Bring your mom along so she can have some fun too.

 

[Daryl Crawford]

There are a lot of possible first rifles out there. The best one for you is one that fits you. I might suggest .50 caliber as getting ball, jags, etc is petty much always easy.
If there are any folks who live near you, it might be best to try a few guns out to see what fits you well. There may be some clubs or rendezvous near you that will give you a chance to handle several different styles of rifle to better determine what works for you.

Good luck. Keep reading and learning. Ask questions when you have them. If you are methodical and attentive this is quite safe and can be a pretty good teacher of responsibility and discipline.

 

[pilot]

Finding a club is a great idea.

 

[reddogge]

Unless you stumble upon an extremely reliable flintlock you may be better off with a percussion rifle for you first muzzleloader, I did. Flintlocks can be finicky whereas a percussion rifle will fire every time if kept clean. Primer caps may be a little hard to find though.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Flintlock rifles bring about a special set of challenges. For one thing, they require real black powder. The substitute powders are just not reliable in a flint lock. When I started off, many years ago, I didn't have someone to mentor me on the quirks of a flint lock rifle. @chiphasnoteeth, do you have a mentor or access to a local muzzleloading club? Any new flint lock will have to have the lock tuned or at least have the mating parts polished for best performance out of the lock. The rifle will be safe for sure. We want the first experience to be enjoyable. These locks can be made to be reliable. The barrel is likely to be accurate on target. The locks often need some initial polishing, but that's not a lot of trouble, but goes much better when you have someone to guide you through the process. Flints can be hard to find, but so can percussion caps.

By the way welcome to traditional muzzleloading with a traditional rifle. Once you get the flint lock tuned up, the flint sharp and secure in the lock, it can be as reliable as a percussion lock. Learning to shoot well with a flint lock rifle will improve your ability with any rifle.

 

[sheriff john]

Glad to have you join us. There are several traditional (sidelock) muzzleloading rifles that are convertible from flint to percussion (and back again). Starting out, such an outfit makes sense to me for several reasons.

1. You become skillful with the same rifle (never try to outshoot a hillbilly with only one gun, he'll beat you most every time). Same trigger, same sights, same barrel, etc. It really is important.

2. I'd start with percussion, then change to flint. Eliminates variables.

3. Whatever you decide, take an in-person hunter safety course before you invest in a rifle. They will be glad to help, let you handle various guns, teach you what you NEED to know about safety, hunting, and FUN.

Really Glad YOU are here. Come back often.

 

[morehops52]

I would recommend buying a good used Thompson Center Renegade or Hawken in .50. Next would be a Lyman Great Plains Rifle. They show up freqeuntly on this forum.

 

[solitare1340]

I recommend searching local pawnshops and estate sales . You will find a much better deal on an entry level rifle , or if you’re lucky you may end up with a high quality rifle for about the same price. I agree with morehops52 to look for a Thompson as that was many of our first rifles and I still use some of mine today after nearly 40 years.
I would also recommend a percussion, and find a local gun club. Good luck !

 

[Sun City]

If chip has no teeth is as meticulous in his endeavors to own a flintlock rifle as he is in his typing and punctuation as his posting implies, I have no doubts as to his ability to own, learn, and to operate any type of firearm safely!!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Of course, in our unit, if @chiphasnoteeth has no teeth to bite off the excess paper from your cartridge for loading, then he is unfit to serve. As a babe to flint lock shooting, I am sure the teeth are on the way.

 

[azmntman]

I kinda would say go Cap lock too. But I understand. The rifle you mentioned may or may not be super reliable. The issues are the lock geometry and the frizzen hardness. I have a CVA woodsman thats real reliable if I clean and knapp the fling every 5-6 shots. VERY accurate too. You pays yo money and you takes yo chances. Can always get an upgraded lock.

As for safety if you have never had a safety class do it. This is fo all guns not just black powder. That and common sense you should be fine as well as those around you. Just wear safety glasses and dont drink till yer done and HAVE FUN. Oh, and these things require immediate cleaning in most cases. Dont wait a week like the .22.

 

[old corporal]

what is your budget?? 500? 2000? for a first rifle , buy it used . then hit the range, with a friend to load and fire a few shots. It is messy and smoky. you may not enjoy it. Or you may develop a fondness for it. U could also borrow a rifle from somebody and try it for a month.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Don't forget the hearing protection.

 

[CaptainVane]

Good for you kiddo. Get the flinter, its a learned skill. After a lot of practice I can get mine to fire everytime in a a hurricane. Don’t believe the percussion guys that say a flinter is unreliable. And with the current market of scarce caps, youll be be shooting while the percussion guys are hunting for ignition caps.
Flinters are more expensive than percussion and not as available. Patience pays off, take your time, and find what you want.

 

[Sun City]

Here's a Safety Class rolled up into few words:

Assume ALL FIREARMS are loaded and don't point the muzzle at anything you don't want to shoot!!

 

[chiphasnoteeth]

First of all, thank you for the responses; you all have been super helpful. I have taken a basic gun safety course (Not a hunter safety course though) and I believe to be competent in that realm. Unfortunately, there are no muzzleloading clubs near me, so that is not an option - I will likely have to be self-taught (with internet assistance of course). After reading the replies, I do have some more questions though.
-If Pyrodex and other substitutes don't work in flintlock rifles, what should I use? Or rather, where do I find black powder to buy? I’ve been looking, and I don’t really know where to find authentic black powder. From what I’ve heard as well, lots of shops don’t like carrying black powder, which is an added layer of complexity.
-Are there better first rifles out there? Perhaps better ones that wouldn’t cost me upwards of ~800? Or is it better to blow 1k on a good rifle? Also, I would like to get a flintlock because I’ve seen the difficulty of finding percussion caps, and I’d rather steer clear of that issue. I also don’t know where to find flints though. Is it worth just getting a percussion rifle and dealing with the lack of cap abundance, or should I get a flintlock and try to work around the inherent quirks?
-@Grenadier1758 mentions polishing locks; to put it bluntly, I don’t know what that means or entails in the slightest. Also, What does getting “the flint lock tuned up” mean?
-Where should I look for a rifle and how much should I expect to spend for a real reliable one? So far I’ve been told to look in pawn shops, estate sales, and seemingly, the forum shop? I don’t know what to expect on there, but it sounds like a good option. @morehops52 When you say a “Hawken” rifle, is that just a type of rifle?
-@azmntman says that reliability issues in the rifle I mentioned are lock geometry and frizzen hardness. Once again, I don’t know what that means. Ideally, I would like to use a flint lock rifle as opposed to a cap lock one, but if there are inherent flaws that make it worse than finding caps, I could reconsider.

P.S. The teeth jokes are great, but Chip is a horse I rode at a competition recently, and he has no teeth.

 

[Daryl Crawford]

First of all, thank you for the responses; you all have been super helpful. I have taken a basic gun safety course (Not a hunter safety course though) and I believe to be competent in that realm. Unfortunately, there are no muzzleloading clubs near me, so that is not an option - I will likely have to be self-taught (with internet assistance of course). After reading the replies, I do have some more questions though.
-If Pyrodex and other substitutes don't work in flintlock rifles, what should I use? Or rather, where do I find black powder to buy? I’ve been looking, and I don’t really know where to find authentic black powder. From what I’ve heard as well, lots of shops don’t like carrying black powder, which is an added layer of complexity.
-Are there better first rifles out there? Perhaps better ones that wouldn’t cost me upwards of ~800? Or is it better to blow 1k on a good rifle? Also, I would like to get a flintlock because I’ve seen the difficulty of finding percussion caps, and I’d rather steer clear of that issue. I also don’t know where to find flints though. Is it worth just getting a percussion rifle and dealing with the lack of cap abundance, or should I get a flintlock and try to work around the inherent quirks?
-@Grenadier1758 mentions polishing locks; to put it bluntly, I don’t know what that means or entails in the slightest. Also, What does getting “the flint lock tuned up” mean?
-Where should I look for a rifle and how much should I expect to spend for a real reliable one? So far I’ve been told to look in pawn shops, estate sales, and seemingly, the forum shop? I don’t know what to expect on there, but it sounds like a good option. @morehops52 When you say a “Hawken” rifle, is that just a type of rifle?
-@azmntman says that reliability issues in the rifle I mentioned are lock geometry and frizzen hardness. Once again, I don’t know what that means. Ideally, I would like to use a flint lock rifle as opposed to a cap lock one, but if there are inherent flaws that make it worse than finding caps, I could reconsider.

P.S. The teeth jokes are great, but Chip is a horse I rode at a competition recently, and he has no teeth.

I'll throw a few more "cents" at this, but my guidance is never to be trusted!
Black powder can be purchased online from folks like Graf & Son's or Powder Valley (I name only them as they are the only online sources I've personally used). Also you could watch for events, rendezvous or market fairs near you. You can possibly find it there.
Many folks will say you must spend $1000 or more to get a good rifle. I'm not testing their integrity when I say this, but they are mistaken. If you posted a want add here, with your desired length of pull (general distance from trigger to the butt), budget, and possible style of rifle and caliber, you may be pleased with the folks who would part with a decent rifle that is consistent and well maintained. I'm not saying you should play up your youth and beginner status, but it certainly grabs my interest as a seller.
Good on you for deciding flint to start. I was like you. I didn't have a mentor, started with an investarm "Hawken style" flintlock. That was before internet days and I was blessed to live fairly close to Dixon's Muzzleloader Shop, so if things went wrong I could go there and get straightened out. You'll do fine if you remain patient and humble in learning. There are lots of old men here who want to pass their knowledge. You might even find some of our members that live reasonably close to you. If so, you might just find a mentor and friend.
As far as lock geometry, there are threads here about that. Also, if you buy a good used rifle from a veteran shooter, they can clue you in on flint size (if too wide you can brush the barrel and too long it messes with the angle of striking the frizzen) and the lock would hopefullybe in good shooting shape. To my mind, if someone here sold you a junk gun with a messed up lock, after saying it was good, their reputation here would be destroyed. You should feel free to ask the forum here about any offers you get. An honest seller shouldn't be concerned with that.
There are some great videos online about setting up, taking down, cleaning, and load development.
If I was you (sounds a bit like I once was) a .50 caliber Thompson Center or Investarm in a half stock, with a hooked breech barrel and single or double barrel wedge (they hold the barrel in place and make for very easy barrel removal and cleaning for a beginner) would be my recommendation. I don't know your height or length of arm, but most folks can fit them.

 

[flconch53]

Unless you stumble upon an extremely reliable flintlock you may be better off with a percussion rifle for you first muzzleloader, I did. Flintlocks can be finicky whereas a percussion rifle will fire every time if kept clean. Primer caps may be a little hard to find though.

I think starting with a flintlock is not a problem especially for an inexperienced shooter who hasn't developed any bad habits yet. A hunters safety course is a good thing for general knowledge but pretty much useless for traditional muzzleloading information.
I would look for a good functioning used rifle that has the bugs worked out.