Some of the advice here is like drinking from a fire hose.
Such as?
If you live anywhere Winchester Virginia, look up the north south skirmishes association..they are a huge ml organization with knowledge that spans alll walks of ml but mostly focuses on civil war weapons. Also back creek settlers at the exit of fort Shenandoah sells black powder during the national events in spring and fall. Go to n-ssa.org website, find a team near you and join them, you will learn a ton.
Too far. Ft Shenandoah might be possible once in a blue moon, especially for buying powder. Thanks for that info.
When starting out, one should be well aware that ordering powder online will be quite expensive. That is one of the reasons we strongly recommend finding a traditional club. They will help you out with an initial supply of powder as well as access to a range to fire the rifle. Hopefully, the Back Creek Gun Shop in Winchester, VA (
540-888-3349 Back Creek Gun Shop, Winchester Va - Black Powder & Musket Caps - Goex, Swiss, & Schuetzen black powder, musket & pistol caps, lube, patches. N-SSA) is close enough for a visit.
Tuning a flint lock is an overall simplified term used to cover all the aspects of polishing the movable parts
Getting good results out a flint lock is a challenge. It can be done. As
@Daryl Crawford warns, the information presented will be an awful lot and hard to follow,
Unfortunately, Winchester is way too far to visit. Also, after much persuasion, and reluctantly, I think a caplock is the better choice for me, as I am on a tight budget. Maybe I'll buy a flintlock a couple years down the line when I have a higher budget - they seem awesome
A couple comments here-
Traditions is a decent, entry level arm and will be fine to start with. Don't get caught up in the "more powder" mania. You're much better served by learning how to shoot the rifle accurately. You also should make the acquaintance of a local black powder club. And since you're young, don't ever start using the Pyrodex stuff if you like your gun.
You mentioned flintlocks, but you really should look into the N-SSA since you're in VA. Several on this board are members and we shoot Civil War era arms in competition, including artillery and if you visit Back Creek for powder, you may as well visit Ft Shenandoah, our main range where we hold Nationals since Back Creek is located at the exit from the property.
Muzzleloading is great fun whether you choose flint or percussion or just do like most of us, shoot both.
And a parting comment, be very, very careful who you listen to or watch on Utoob. There is a bunch of misinformation and borderline stuff there. One absolutely solid Utoober is on this forum- Black Powder Maniac
@B P Maniac Shooter He has a great Utoob channel and is a true example of a Southern Gentleman.
"More powder mania" meaning what? The theory that more powder = more accuracy, or what? The N-SSA and Fort Shenandoah sound awesome! I just don't think it'd be possible for me to go until I can drive. Black powder maniac, got it - I'll check him out.
Boy oh boy. You got so much advice I don't think there is anything to add. I would very seriously consider the advice from 54ball post #39 very solid. ?I understand wanting a flintlock I was there also but it was my third muzzleloader. So I waited and bought a Kibler SMR. Great rifle but I would get a Woodsrunner if possible. But we are now talking $1100 to $1330 or more. Well worth the money but more that you should spend on your first one, I would strongly recommend going with a percussion for your first muzzleloader. It's just way easier to learn on and you don't have to worry about the lock. Caps are out there you just need to search. I buy all my powder and caps and flints online. All my kits also.
You need to do what you think is best for you. A lot of great advice here from a lot of people with way more knowledge than me. I've only been shooting black powder for a little over a year but I would recommend starting with a percussion gun as your first blackpowder gun. Good luck and keep your powder dry.
Yeah, I think I'll end up getting a used caplock rifle from this forum. Really wish I could start with flintlock, but it's just too expensive for me at the moment.
WOW - a LOT of good advice here
. I will "throw my hat" into the mix. For anyone just starting out in muzzle loading guns I STRONGLY suggest that you start off with a percussion rifle. This will eliminate all the idiosyncrasies associated with a flintlock gun and allow you to build on the skills needed to load, shoot, and care for the gun. This will help your mother feel better with allowing you to have and shoot your rifle. You do remember she is the one giving you permission to have it in the first place and she is the one buying your powder and caps. One misstep and your rifle is GONE until you are 18.
A flintlock rifle is nice and has the romance of days gone by, but it does have a learning curve to it and that's where the caplock rifle fits in. Get your muzzleloading skills down first then move up to the flintlock rifle.
Caplock rifles can be had for a reasonable price - under $350 in good condition. Look for one that has a GOOD - nonpitted/rusted bore. Get yourself a bore light so that you can look down the bore. You can also check for rough spots in the bore with a lubricated patch run up and down the bore BUT you can also get that patch/ramrod stuck and then you will be "sweating bullets" trying to get it out. Next check that the locks works properly. Stays cocked when in full cock and engages the half cock notch securely. If you can't look the gun over in person and have to buy one online from a reputable gun dealer, make sure you have a grace period to examine the gun and send it back if it does not meet your standards.
There are other items to look for in a use rifle, but I am done writing for now and I don't want my comments to drag on and on - you get the picture
Got it - percussion rifle, grace period when buying, look for a non-rusted bore and that the lock properly functions.
The kid is 14yo and some of you are telling him to do things that an experienced gunsmith would do with a shop full of tools.
Maybe some day he can afford a Kibler, Chambers, etc. but not now.
Kid, find a nice used TC Hawken. They aint cheap but they are built like a brick smoke house, they are accurate, they work, they are a great first flintlock. I still have my first one, 53yo, and dead nuts accurate and all original parts.
My first rifle was a flinter and the sparks in my face didn’t make me soil my pants. Its part of the fun.
Its like saying get a bb gun cause the bang might scare you.
TC hawken.. If I can find one, then I very well may consider it. I don't know what kind of price you're talking about though. Anything over $600 for a rifle alone is almost certainly outside my budget. That is definitely something for me to think about - you make it sound great.
And a parting comment, be very, very careful who you listen to or watch on Utoob. There is a bunch of misinformation and borderline stuff there. One absolutely solid Utoober is on this forum- Black Powder Maniac@
@B P Maniac Shooter He has a great Utoob channel and is a true example of a Southern Gentleman.
Very true. Rumble is much better for gun videos anyway. I make videos about building guns. Many times I am doing something for the first time and don't know what I am doing. But I am making a video about how to do it anyway. I am pretty good at making it look like I know what I am doing. Always try to get information from as many different sources as you can.
Rumble.. never thought about it for gun videos. I'll check it out. And yeah, misinformation is so unfortunately widespread on the internet. I try to be as careful as possible when learning from the internet, especially from YouTube.
Where in Virginia are you located, Chip? I'm down in Southwest VA, near Wytheville.
Chip is a horse, but I'm in Northern VA near Woodbridge and the Bull Run battlefield.
"Get the best you can" sounds like great advice yet in reality, that has not been the situation for most of us. some of us may have inherited a great muzzleloader from a family member or friend, but for those of us who had no such connections, we generally started with something less ...uh...desirable.
I have been in the recruiting business and have learned that a good, beginner product is acceptable for those exploring a hobby or endeavor. Too many have had a poor hand-me-down and managed to fail or succeed,despite what it was. Not many of us had a great car to begin with. I suspect the same was true when many of us began muzzleloading.
One of the challenging aspect of gaining new folks who will embrace the hobby is the cost. Can they afford a high quality gun? It is not an inexpensive hobby for anybody to start without the benefit of family or friends.
One aspect of starting with a more modest product it we will determine what we like and dislike about it. That will help us move on to a better product. The fact is, there are more entry level products available at a reasonable investment than there are of the good quality ones. The latter holds their value more than the former, but for those starting out, they will usually start with something more affordable unless fate and circumstances give them the opportunity to start with a better muzzleloader.
Many of us have the benefit of experience and years in the hobby, yet most of use did not have the advantage of quality to being most of our endeavors.
Yes.. It sounds like good advice, and to an extent, is, but is also the source of extreme uncertainty. I will probably end up buying a used caplock from the forum shop, as much as I do want a flintlock.
Flints vs caps. Mail order flints from someone like Track of the Wolf and the most you will have to pay extra is the postage to ship while to buy caps by mail you will have to pay a hazmat fee as well. Mailorder powder also has a hazmat fee. I believe that the fee is about $40. If you go the cap route you can also purchase a conversion nipple that allows you to use #209 shotgun primers in your long gun. They are sort of a pain to use (you have to unscrew the top, load the primer in and screw the top back on) but they work well and I have not had any trouble finding 209's when my regular caps are not available.
Good luck in your new endeavors, stay safe and have fun (yes, you can do both!)
I see why buying powder & caps is so expensive online now.. I'll almost certainly have to buy powder online but I'll check any stores near me that might have it.
I'll stand by my initial reply with some modifications now that we know a little more about you. Since
@chiphasnoteeth has little money to spend, I doubt that he will want to be spending a lot of his money on powder. That leaves substitute powder and percussion locks (Cap locks) as a viable choice. There will be more inexpensive cap lock guns available and even with the cheap locks, they will set off caps far more readily than the same manufacturer's flint locks. The CVA (Traditions and Jukar) rifles with double set triggers have a better lock than their single trigger models.
You should be looking for rifles with very little surface rust and with rifling visible at the muzzle. Running a damp patch down the barrel will most likely cone out brown as if the bore is caked in rust. The old storage lubricants and some of the new lubricants turn brown in the barrel and you will be convinced that bore is rusted beyond recovery. If the patch turns with the rifling, all may not be lost. A good cleaning will often bring these rifles back to shooting condition.
If the breech looks good and the nipple can easily be removed, there is little likelihood that with reasonable loads, that the rifle will turn into an IED.
Continue a search for a local traditional muzzleloading gun club. This will put you in contact withn people who can mentor you and get you properly started in Traditional Muzzleloading.
Alright. I suppose caplocks are my best bet then. Are black powder substitutes worse for muzzleloaders than black powder? Someone earlier said that Pyrodex and others was horrible for your rifle's bore...
Oh wow, that's actually really close to me. It's completely reasonable for me to get started with them, thank you so much!
If you are super into 18th and early 19th century history as you say you are, avoid the Thompson Center (TC) and other similar reproductions as they are not historically correct. Keep doing your research and look in the classified ads on this site until you find a Rev war or other suitable flintlock.
Searching for the appropriate flintlock is half the fun!
I'd love to start with a flintlock, but I don't think I have the budget at the moment. Perhaps down the line, I'll buy a flintlock though. Historical muskets (not rifles, I know) like the Charlevilles and Brown Bess(es?) seem really cool to me. However.. they're too expensive for me. I wonder if some of those issued rifles (antiques) feasible to buy at all. Owning a piece of history like that seems awesome.
if you can bring yourself to accept the current prices then do so at least for the time being!
