need help with 58 minie bullet mold

[Surrywoodman]

Hey all,
I just bought a 58 cal Zoave that I will be using with Minie balls. I went searching and Lee Precision has several sizes specked for the 58. Does anyone know what the best size mold for the Zoave would be, or what your experience has been? They have three near as I can tell, two 575s and a 578 for the 58cal. Want to be able to hunt with it as well as do N-SSA competition

 

[Grenadier1758]

@Surrywoodman, I can't tell you. Your Zouave is the source for determining the size of the Minie' ball you need. Bore diameter of the lands varies quite a bit between manufacturers. The bore must be measured. That can be quite the trick with the three groove barrels of many of the reproductions. Using the inside tips of a vernier caliper measure the diameter from the lands to the bottom of the groove on all three flats. Since these are round barrels, measure from the land to the outside of the barrel for all three lands. Do the same for the grooves. Subtract the average of the three groove measurements from the average of the three land measurements. Now you have the groove depth. Subtract the groove depth from the average of the three land to groove measurements to get the land-to-land bore diameter. Buy a mold that is 0.001" to 0.002" smaller than the land-to-land diameter. You may want a larger diameter mold and an exact diameter sizer sleeve to form your Minie' balls.

If you have one of the Zouaves with a 0.580" bore none of the molds you found will work. Maybe @dave951 will chime in.

 

[Surrywoodman]

I forgot to mention, it is an Antonio Zoli, sold by Navy Arms originally, and that might not make any difference, I don't have it yet, it is in transit

 

[nkbj]

Hey Surry,
If you don't have a set of pin gauges...
The easiest way I've found to determine the needed minie diameter is to obtain some minies of various diameters. Check for fit by carefully inserting them into the muzzle while the barrel is laying flat on a table. The minie that will just barely go in is the diameter to try first for load development.
Another way is to obtain some that are larger than the bore diameter and to hold the barrel vertical, like between your legs while sitting in a chair. Then, with a good set of channel locks holding the nose of the minie, insert its tail into the rifling while rotating the barrel against the base of the minie. In effect you're using the lands of the rifling to machine down the outside diameter of the soft lead. After boogering up a few and getting the hang of it you can make a few more to check with calipers or mic's and figure out the diameter you want to start loading with. If the minies on hand are too small to start with you can stand them up and bang the noses with a hammer to make the skirts fatter.

Another method of course is put one wrap of thin paper around a slightly too small minie to make it big enough to shoot accurately. That's a trick I first read about here on the forum many years ago.

 

[springfield art]

I forgot to mention, it is an Antonio Zoli, sold by Navy Arms originally, and that might not make any difference, I don't have it yet, it is in transit

A pal just won an older Zoli at raffle. Guys on local black powder range are coaching her on it; a woman with a Zouave! Does that make her a vivandierre?

 

[Surrywoodman]

I don't have pin gauges but I do have calipers, and...I do think I get get my hands on some minies of a few different diameters prior to buying a mould.

 

[maillemaker]

As others noted, you cannot count on what is stamped on the barrel. It is meaningless other than to give you a ballpark idea of what it was supposed to be.

You can buy a set of Class ZZ minus pin gauges from Travers.com or amazon or whatever. They are about $5 each. I recommend getting them in .001" increments from .575 up to .580.

Or, if you already have sizing dies, just size bullets down .001" at a time until you find one that fits.

I generally love Lee products, and they are good, budget-friendly options for our hobby.

But I do not recommend Lee hollow cavity bullet moulds. The problem is their core pin and the molds are both made of aluminum, and they quickly gall.

I would recommend an RCBS mold, or one from Moose Molds.

 

[Surrywoodman]

Thank you Maillemaker

 

[Trot]

You can get a few sizes of pin gauges from Amazon, you don't really need a whole set. To further muddy the waters, you can't count on a mold dropping the exact size ball that it is supposed to. The best way is to start with a bullet minutely larger and size them with a push through sizer so they are all the same.

 

[towgunner11h]

My Zoli Zouave has a .581" bore, but they all vary, and you need that measurement. If you're near WV, I'd be glad to help!

 

[maillemaker]

I see you are in Virginia. If you hook up with your local N-SSA group they will have everything they need to get you sorted.

Steve

 

[akroguy]

I have four rifle muskets in .58, and ALL are unique bore diameters. The Armi Sport '61 is largest, the 1964 era Zoli Mississippi is the smallest.

Keeping molds and sizers all sorted to the right guns is a bit of a challenge.

 

[Surrywoodman]

Yes I live in VA. I am actually going to the last chance N-SSA shoot this coming Sunday in Capron, VA and am going to join. I won't be shooting but will be asking questions

 

[akroguy]

I'm ~2000 freakin miles away but would LOVE to join. Got all the gear just wrong side of the USA. Have fun!

 

[dave951]

Yes I live in VA. I am actually going to the last chance N-SSA shoot this coming Sunday in Capron, VA and am going to join. I won't be shooting but will be asking questions

Well welcome to the madness.

In the world of reproductions, bore size is never, ever standardized to any reliable extent. Doesn't matte what it's marked, you have to measure with some form of PIN GAUGE. This problem leads the unsuspecting to just plunk any old minie down the pipe cuz that's what the barrel says and said commercial minie will have been cast from suspect range scrap and is probably way too hard and our novice will use Pyrodex and Wonder Lube and the resulting keyholes, inaccuracy and frustrations will lead them to plaster the internet with "why these guns are crap, yada, yada yada.

Like @maillemaker and others have said, a venier or dial caliper will not get you an accurate measurement. Since you're going to go to Capron, take the rifle with you and I'm sure somebody will have a set of bore gauges. There was a N-SSA member who recently had some made and sold them to the N-SSA members and I bought a set. Very handy to have.

As for molds- Lyman, RCBS, and Moose. Forget Lee. I have never seen a Lee last any length of time in a minie. There isn't enough aluminum there for the amount of lead you are pouring and the core pin is held in by a piece of sheet metal that will flex and the entire unit is subject to warping and galling of the aluminum. Even if there is an unconditional guarantee, you'll be struggling. Since you're going to join up, ask around, most N-SSA members are more than willing to help new folks get their musket up and running.

Getting one of these critters to shoot well isn't rocket science if you follow the basics- real black powder, pure lead, correct size minie, good lube, RWS or Scheutzen caps.

Navy Arms 1863 Remington aka "Zouave" 10 shots rapid fire offhand at 50yd. That's 9 pigeon hits out of 10 shots as fast I could load and fire. Minie was RCBS Hogdon

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

Before buying anything, pin gauge your bore.

Before buying anything, pin gauge your bore.

Before buying anything, pin gauge your bore.

This has been my TED talk.

 

[Surrywoodman]

Thanks for the info Dave951, I have been shooting muzzle loaders for around 30 years so I get what you are saying. It is on my list to ask about bore sizing help. I have done load development with various and sundry conicals over the years with the three rifles I have (all 50 cal), this is my first foray into structured competition and I want to do as well as I can of course. I will take the mould info into consideration, been snooping around Lyman, RCBS, and Moose, my only issue for that now is the closest mould to the needed size. I have already been through the pyrodex period, that was early on, and my experience was that it was not a consistent boomer unless I had all the stars lining up at all times, and it could get weaker (age-out) over time

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

You might have to add a sizing die to your kit as well. Bore diameter of my original Springfield 1863 is .583". One of my molds (RCBS Hogdon) drops a bullet that measures .581". That is the size I need, so I can load those as cast. Another mold (Rapine) drops them at .585". I run these through a .581 sizer to get my diameter correct.

 

[Surrywoodman]

You might have to add a sizing die to your kit as well. Bore diameter of my original Springfield 1863 is .583". One of my molds (RCBS Hogdon) drops a bullet that measures .581". That is the size I need, so I can load those as cast. Another mold (Rapine) drops them at .585". I run these through a .581 sizer to get my diameter correct.

Yeah I am giving thought to that too, I could get lucky, but I might need to over cast and size down.

 

[Zapadach]

I forgot to mention, it is an Antonio Zoli, sold by Navy Arms originally, and that might not make any difference, I don't have it yet, it is in transit

I had that exact rifle back in the 1980s. It shot excellent with .575 Minnie balls, out to 100 yards with no problem.