Need help with getting more than 4 shots of my rifle

[ISUSteve]

I bought a Traditions Kentucky rifle a year ago because I wanted a flintlock and enjoy small explosions close to my eye.

Anyways, I can't seem to get more than 4 to 5 shots out of it when I go to the range. The first two are 100% reliable, but the next few are touch and go before I have to break out the ball puller.

I usally spit patch and dry patch every other round and have tried every round, but it doesn't help. I clean the touchhole with a pick and pipe cleaner everyround. I can get a flash, but no ignition.

I use pyrodex because I can't get cheap GOEX. FFFG right now, but I'm thinking of switching to FFG once I run out. I'm using FFFFG in the pan that I make using a motor and pestle.

I seems that the breach area gets wet and cakes on the inside, but I could be wrong. When I pull the balls out, the powder is usally caked on the patch.

Do you guys have any ideas on whats going on? How many shots do you normally get before it needs a good cleaning? Thank you for your replies!

Steve

 

[Jumpshot]

...and enjoy small explosions close to my eye.

:rotf: That's the best reason I've heard for buying a flintlock! :grin:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Trying to run a flintlock on Pyrodex just won't work. It has a much higher ignition temperature than black, the reason most stores keep it in stock is the very reason it won't work in a flintlock. You need real black powder in the pan and at least ten grains down the barrel to prime the main charge of Pyrodex, that is if you must use Pyrodex at all. Sorry, but you'll have to find some real black powder.

 

[trent/OH]

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I think you'll find your wet patches are too wet, and are leaving moistened powder residue in the breech. It's also likely the jag is too large in diameter and is causing the patch to scour the residue off the bore on the way down the barrel and leave it there. A smaller jag, or of better design, will push the patch downbore, then grab the patch as it expands to fill the bore and scour it out as it comes OUT the barrel. In essence, you are squeegee-ing the barrel with a wet patch on the way down, instead of on the way out of the bore.

 

[ISUSteve]

What kind of jag would you recommend and where would I get one? I have a Scheels and a Sportman's Warehouse close; could I get one there?

 

[tg]

You will struggle untill you can get some BP or a sub that works better in a flinter than Pyro.

 

[ISUSteve]

Wheres the best place to get blackpowder without paying too much? I'm in central Iowa.

 

[Jumpshot]

Oh, you're using Pyrodex. I missed that part. That's the first thing I'd change. I think Graf's has it for about $11/lb, and Maine Powder House is about $13/lb.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Your problem will not go away until you change to real BP. A Hogden rep admitted to me at Friendship that they knew it would not ignite well in a flint gun ---this was quite a while ago when Hogden set up a chronograph on the firing line. They offered to chronograph your gun free. When I showed up with my flint they graciously did my gun and load. When we finished, the rep said, "About now we'll ask you to try the same load with pyrodex, but since you have a flint gun why don't you send one of your buddies with his percussion gun. Pydrodex doesn't ignite well in a flinter."

You may be able to finish off your pyrodex by putting in a small bit of BP at the bottom of the load, but to have reliable fun, ditch the pyrodex and use the real stuff.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[ISUSteve]

Thanks for the replies. I've heard not to use Pyro, but the only reason I've got is because "its not authentic." Thank you for telling me the real reason.

 

[paulvallandigham]

ISU STEVE: Pyrodex ignites at over 700 degree F. Black Powder ignites at under 400 degrees.

As to your damp powder, it has to do with cleaning techniques, and the relative size of your jag to bore diameter. You want a cotton cleaning patch to skim over the residue on the way down the barrel( Yes, some residue on the lands will be picked up), then blouse out the patch to fill the grooves and fit tight against the lands to clean out the gunk on the way back out.

I recommend cleaning a barrel between shots, first using a damp patch. I just dab a clean cleaning patch on my tongue, and then run it, damp side down, 1/4 of the way down the barrel. Then I reverse, and pull back on the patch for several inches, to dig in and pull out the crud in the grooves, then stop and go down to the half way point, and stop, pull back, and repeat the process. On some days, the barrel will feel very dirty, and I may have to stop at the half-way point and pull the patch all the way out of the barrel, discard it, and start another damp patch. I still go down in quarters, feeling the condition of the barrel as I am going down and back up in stages. I STOP one INCH short of the breechplug, swith the damp patch,as I don't want to put damp anything against the breechplug face, or into the flashhole or touch hole. When I pull the damp patch out, I examine it to determine how damp the residue is. On hot humid days, I will likely use two damp patches as a practice to get all the crud out.

Then I use a dry patch, running it hand over hand down all the way to the BREECH PLUG. I want that dry patch to soak up any moist goo on the plug, so it comes out with the patch. On humid days, I will flip this dry patch over and run it back down the barrel a second time to dry the barrel further. Always be checking the dampness of the goo removed to decide if you need to use another patch.

If you clean your gun this way, you should eliminate the problems you are having with damp, caked powder. When People tell you that they can load their guns and shoot all day without cleaning, you need to know what time of day, the air temperature ranges for that day, and the relative humidity in that area. Some people live in the right place and can get buy without cleaning between shot, or opt to clean every so many shots.

Much has to do with how much accuracy you are demanding from your gun. Deer hunting does not require the same degree of consistent performance that a trick shot shooter needs, or a bench rest competition shooter requires. You will learn this either from our advice, or by having the experience of a ball sticking part way down the barrel, at which point you can't shoot it out of the gun without risking damaging the barrel, and it might take pouring cleaning fluid down the barrel to soak around the patch to get the ball moving again. That fluid in turn can dampen your powder charge below, and the gun may not fire, requiring you to pull the ball. How many shots you will get before this happens, when you don't clean between shots is something for you to find out. In new barrels its usually much sooner than in barrels that have been polished with a few hundred shots put through them.

I am not a fan of pulling bullets, having joined that distinguished club of shooters on several occasions when I was new to the sport. For those reasons, and for safety, I clean between shots. I don't want a glowing ember setting off a new powder charge with my hands anywhere near the muzzle of the barrel. The damp patch not only cleans out the residue, it also puts out the embers.

 

[Smk50]

I dont know how much you shoot, but you can order authentic BP in (depending on vendor)4-5# lots.
Bear river powder, or powder inc. are 2 that come to mind, though there are numerous others. Or if you have any reason to come to Omaha,Ne I could part with a couple cans. I usuall order mine by the case or 2 at a time.

 

[Trench]

For black powder, check to see if you've got a Gander Mountain in your area. You'll have to ask for it at the gun counter, as it won't be on the shelves. I'm paying $15 a can.

 

[FPDoc]

Aside from the already mentioned explosions close to my eyes .. I particularly enjoy the small flint shards that occasionally stick in my forehead and when my hair catches fire.. it's just good all-round fun in my book!!

P.S. I agree with the "real" black powder and the need for patch jag modifications.

 

[ISUSteve]

No Gander Mountain here, but I think there is one up in Cedar Rapids about two hours away.

What kind of cleaning jag do you guys recommend?

Thank you all for your replies!

 

[spaethjm]

I bought my from Graf"s mail order you have to pay a hazmat fee but if you get 5 lbs it is not so bad or go in with some one else to share the fee.

 

[J.D.]

No Gander Mountain here, but I think there is one up in Cedar Rapids about two hours away.

What kind of cleaning jag do you guys recommend?

Just order the minimum from Grafs. I think the minimum order is four pounds. If you don't want to store the excess powder in your house, bury the excess in a well sealed 5 gal bucket near, or under a dog house, or other small outbuilding.

Burying the extra powder keeps it safe from the errant spark, and safe from nosey neighbors. Just be sure to burry it in well drained area.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Look at the Track of the Wolf website( See Links in the Member Resources section at the top of the index page to this forum) for cleaning jags. Basically, they come in standard sizes, and some have to be modified once bought. Just chuck the jag into a drill and use a good file to reduce the size of the jag " rings " to the size that works for your gun. But, you have to measure that bore with calipers or a micrometer. You want the jag to be about .04" smaller in diameter, than the bore. You also want to consider stepping the rings down. On my 4 ring jag, the last three rings( into the barrel) should be even smaller, but few thousandths of an inch to allow the cleaning patch to move and Blouse. The way a jag is designed, its on the back stroke that it grabs the fabric of the cleaning patch and pulls out the powder residue and moisture. There is a taper on the forward edge of each ring, while the back edge is square to the diameter. Some jags are made with a hollow in the nose of the jag, to help in seating round balls. I prefer the ones that are flat across the nose, and always buy the ones that have a steel treaded screw in the back end, rather than the cheaper brass threaded screws to fit in your Cleaning Rod. Go with a 10/32 thread, as its wider, and stronger. If you don't have a cleaning rod, I suggest you buy a solid range rod, made of stainless steel, Brass, or Aircraft Aluminum tubing. They are available from a number of suppliers, including Track, Cains, Log Cabin, etc. My last range rod is made of aircraft aluminum by Pro-Shot, and is sold through a variety of vendors. I also have a Tresso Stainless Steel Range rod for my rifle.

If you are that new to this sport, you will also need a ball pulling jag, and a patch pulling jag. You might as well buy all the jags at the same time. And, buy a bore brush for your gun, too.

 

[Jumpshot]

Check these links for powder distributors...
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/MLF_Links.php#Powders

 

[flaming canvas]

What kind of jag would you recommend and where would I get one? I have a Scheels and a Sportman's Warehouse close; could I get one there?

If you are using a really wet spit patch, try skipping the wipe and dry step. Sounds to me like you are just pushing the fouling down into the breech. If your patch and ball are tight, the bore will be wiped as you load and all the fouling will be on top of the powder and go out the barrel.

As mentioned above, you MUST use real black powder in a flinter.