NEED SOME ACCURACY HELP

[flatcreek]

Shooting a Lyman trade rifle in 50cal and I can't get a group at 50 yds that satisfies me. I keep getting fliers and it's not as consistent as I would like. I've shot over 600 balls with this rifle, with many different combos of patch ball lube and powder. I have arrived at 70gr of 2f or 3f, .018 or .022 patch and .490 or .495 ball with Mr Flintlock lube. I don't think it's me as I also shot a Tenn. Mt. in 40 cal and do much better, built the Tenn. Mt. rifle with Colerain barrel and a Small Siler lock, so it does have better components. I'm thinking it is the rifle, possibly the lock that is giving me these problems. It goes off every time, sometimes bang and sometimes clack bang no constancy. I was thinking of replacing the lock with an L&R. Here's a target, please give me your thoughts. It does shoot deer dead as I did get an 8 pointer with it the other day. But was very unhappy with my shot, 5" low and it took a second to finish him.
Thank Phil

 

[R Ellis]

That is a thick patch .Is it hard to load and have you tried a 010 patch

 

[flatcreek]

That is a thick patch .Is it hard to load and have you tried a 010 patch

Not hard by my estimation. I use the .018 with the .495 ball and .022 with the .490. These are not compressed sizes for the patches. I have tried many combos and these are the best. Talking between 600 and 700 shots of different combos and this is where I hit a wall. I got 2" groups with the tenn. mt. with the first 20 shots. .395 ball .018 patch, and 40gr 3f.

 

[R Ellis]

Not hard by my estimation. I use the .018 with the .495 ball and .022 with the .490. These are not compressed sizes for the patches. I have tried many combos and these are the best. Talking between 600 and 700 shots of different combos and this is where I hit a wall. I got 2" groups with the tenn. mt. with the first 20 shots. .395 ball .018 patch, and 40gr 3f.

Ok I just wondered because I have several 45 and 50 cal and all shoot the best with 010 patch and most are very hard to almost impossible to load with a 015 patch .Have you measured your barrel to see if it is 050 or what ever

 

[flatcreek]

I have slugged the barrel and it is a .50 may a thousand or 2 bigger. It's hard to measure with 5 lands and grooves a land is opposite a groove. It's .510 from land to groove.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Not hard by my estimation. I use the .018 with the .495 ball and .022 with the .490. These are not compressed sizes for the patches. I have tried many combos and these are the best. Talking between 600 and 700 shots of different combos and this is where I hit a wall. I got 2" groups with the tenn. mt. with the first 20 shots. .395 ball .018 patch, and 40gr 3f.

Interesting! How do the two rifle's sights compare? If the Lyman barrel/lock is doing it's job, maybe the sights don't fit you as good as your build. Just another thought to consider.
PS....... I am not too much into the store bought slickum. For range work just use water with a little Dawn and forget Mr Flintlock. Not saying Mr Flintlock is not good, just saying try a simpler patch lube.
Larry

 

[hanshi]

You might check the vent liner as an oversize one "can" cause inaccuracy. I don't know anything about your rifle but I use .023" canvas patches "compressed" for a tight fit in most of my rifles. But they are quite easily seated with the wood rod. But some shooters go the opposite direction and get good results with thin patches. Make sure all the screws on the rifle are nice and snug, check the sights for looseness and of course the vent liner.

 

[flatcreek]

Same sights on both, longer sight distance on the Tenn.. I have also tried Ballistol and water, Hoppes black powder and totw mink oil.

 

[R Ellis]

I have slugged the barrel and it is a .50 may a thousand or 2 bigger. It's hard to measure with 5 lands and grooves a land is opposite a groove. It's .510 from land to groove.

.510 is why you need the thicker patch its a 51 cal

 

[William Sublette]

Have you tried 75, or 80 gr of powder?

 

[R Ellis]

Have you tried any conical

 

[flatcreek]

You might check the vent liner as an oversize one "can" cause inaccuracy. I don't know anything about your rifle but I use .023" canvas patches "compressed" for a tight fit in most of my rifles. But they are quite easily seated with the wood rod. But some shooters go the opposite direction and get good results with thin patches. Make sure all the screws on the rifle are nice and snug, check the sights for looseness and of course the vent liner.

I have enlarged the vent to 1/16 and counter sunk the outside a bit as well. Sights are tight

 

[flatcreek]

Have you tried 75, or 80 gr of powder?

Have you tried any conical

Yes and Yes

 

[flatcreek]

Some of my groups are close to excepable, I'm 75 and eyes are not what they were 30 yrs ago. There just the inconstancy which leads me to think the lock or at least the inconsistent lock time which may have something to do with the touch hole as Hanshi suggested,

 

[flatcreek]

.510 is why you need the thicker patch its a 51 cal

Not .51 cal. .510 is from land to groove, subtract .10 for the groove and you have .50 cal. I think it's a bit big maybe .502.

 

[rchas]

two thoughts

1) how consistent are you in your loading practice? a few grains of powder off here and there, or maybe bouncing the ramrod off the bullet, or inconsistent pressure seating the bullet on the powder? Small stuff but it can make a difference

2) check that your pins/wedges are not binding in the barrel loops. As barrels heat up and cool down they need to move in the stock. A bound pin/wedge could be putting enough pressure on the barrel to cause a flier.

 

[hanshi]

I have enlarged the vent to 1/16 and counter sunk the outside a bit as well. Sights are tight

A 1/16" vent opening is all I've ever needed and it always works well for me. They can possibly enlarge a bit from picking too much with a steel vent pick. I tend to use a copper wire most of the time.

 

[flatcreek]

A 1/16" vent opening is all I've ever needed and it always works well for me. They can possibly enlarge a bit from picking too much with a steel vent pick. I tend to use a copper wire most of the time.

Sometimes the 3f comes out of the vent a bit and the 2f doesn't, I wonder if that can give me the inconstant lock time or is it the lock? On the target the 2f seemed to do a bit better except for the last group, but the rifle was getting pretty fouled by then. I don't swab between shot I let the patched ball do the cleaning. It seems to me that the inconstant time between trigger pull and bang is giving me the problem.

 

[R Ellis]

Sometimes the 3f comes out of the vent a bit and the 2f doesn't, I wonder if that can give me the inconstant lock time or is it the lock? On the target the 2f seemed to do a bit better except for the last group, but the rifle was getting pretty fouled by then. I don't swab between shot I let the patched ball do the cleaning. It seems to me that the inconstant time between trigger pull and bang is giving me the problem.

but your vent pick in the flash hole while you load and see how that does for you

 

[fillwa]

Inconsistent lock time and getting fliers ever so often. I’d pay attention to your hold over once you pull the trigger.