Need some assitance with my first flintlock choice

[PotomacRanger]

In my local shop there are two T/C Hawken Muzzleloaders. Both are flintlock and 28" Barrel. One is .45 caliber and the other is .54 caliber. Both rifles are in an 8/10 condition. They look excellent down the bore but the price has me halted. The .45 Hawken is $500 and the .54 Hawken is $600. The shop clerk said the prices can come down but not by more than 20% as they are on consignment. I havent had any luck in finding a flinter and the Penn Hunter I wanted sold before I could finally make my decision. My fork in the road that is holding me up is should I go for a Thompson Center ? I like the look of the long rifles but I dont know if I am ready to spend longrifle money. At that same point spending $400-600 now is more money after I spend $1200-$1700 for a longrifle later. I found a Dixie Gun Works Tenn Mtn Rifle that caught my eye on the internet but it was percussion so I would have to convert it which is about $250-300 and the rifle is $695.00. There is a nice .45 cal cherry stock rifle here on the forum but its $1600 and that would mean me throwing all my money at a small bore rifle. I will only be hunting white tails so it wouldnt be so bad I guess. I dont know where to go from here I guess... lol. I dont know if I should by a production model or go out and get a Kibler, Kashtuk, Cabin Creek, TVM, Jim Chambers or Penatonica. Anyone want to shed some light on my rather dreary situation.

My home state is Maryland and will be where I hunt. I hunt in Allegheny County and my property is in thr mountains so its hilly and wooded densely. Longest shots might be 80 yards... one day most wont top 50. Lowest legal caliber is .40 caliber with 60 gr of powder in a rifle and 40gr in a pistol. Like I said above this rifle will be a White Tail Deer hunting rifle. I know its sounds kinda dumb to ask this question here but its been knawing at me for the better bit of 3 months. Thanks to everyone who takes their time to read this and comment their thoughts and opinions.

 

[jackpine54]

I would say, go with your gut. If you know you want a longrifle, don't buy something else. Buy once, cry once! For deer I would choose .45 and above. Kibler makes some dandy kits!

 

[morehops52]

T/C made quality rifles. If it were me I would get the .54 and get it now to start enjoying shooting. If you decide to upgrade later you still have a very saleable rifle. There are many good reasons to go .45 but I just really like the shock power of bigger calibers. Hope this helps as it's worth every penny you paid.

 

[Grenadier1758]

If the flint lock is the newer T/C lock with the better geometry, these rifles become more interesting. Look on the forum to find pictures of the different locks. I still think the asking price is too high even with the better lock. The 54 will be effective on deer (of course, the 45 is too). Getting the price down to $450 is more reasonable.

 

[brushblind]

Those prices are a little high. What you might want to try is placing an ad on Craigslist under sporting such as Wanted to buy, older muzzle loading equipment flintlock preferred. I've had great success doing this, also keep an eye out for estate sales.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

In my local shop there are two T/C Hawken Muzzleloaders. Both are flintlock and 28" Barrel. One is .45 caliber and the other is .54 caliber. Both rifles are in an 8/10 condition. They look excellent down the bore but the price has me halted. The .45 Hawken is $500 and the .54 Hawken is $600. The shop clerk said the prices can come down but not by more than 20% as they are on consignment. I havent had any luck in finding a flinter and the Penn Hunter I wanted sold before I could finally make my decision. My fork in the road that is holding me up is should I go for a Thompson Center ? I like the look of the long rifles but I dont know if I am ready to spend longrifle money. At that same point spending $400-600 now is more money after I spend $1200-$1700 for a longrifle later. I found a Dixie Gun Works Tenn Mtn Rifle that caught my eye on the internet but it was percussion so I would have to convert it which is about $250-300 and the rifle is $695.00. There is a nice .45 cal cherry stock rifle here on the forum but its $1600 and that would mean me throwing all my money at a small bore rifle. I will only be hunting white tails so it wouldnt be so bad I guess. I dont know where to go from here I guess... lol. I dont know if I should by a production model or go out and get a Kibler, Kashtuk, Cabin Creek, TVM, Jim Chambers or Penatonica. Anyone want to shed some light on my rather dreary situation.

My home state is Maryland and will be where I hunt. I hunt in Allegheny County and my property is in thr mountains so its hilly and wooded densely. Longest shots might be 80 yards... one day most wont top 50. Lowest legal caliber is .40 caliber with 60 gr of powder in a rifle and 40gr in a pistol. Like I said above this rifle will be a White Tail Deer hunting rifle. I know its sounds kinda dumb to ask this question here but its been knawing at me for the better bit of 3 months. Thanks to everyone who takes their time to read this and comment their thoughts and opinions.

Prices are too high! You want a long gun, then that is what you should get. Be patient, bite the bullet and pay for what you really want. There are hundreds of good new and second hand long guns out there.
Larry

 

[Grenadier1758]

Here's some pictures of the hammer to identify the differences.

View attachment 165967

 

[DuncNZ]

20% of $500 is $100 so the .45 price would be $400 , 20% of 600 is $120 so the 54 would be $420 ,
The rifles are on consignment so ask for a better cash deal .
Consignment rifles are usually on consignment because either the shop either doesn't want to buy them for stock or the the seller want's too much money for them .Often the shop wants to sell them to replace them with stock it can make more profit on. So haggle
T/C rifles seem to have a ready market so as long as you look after the rifle you should be able to get your money back if you want to get a better Longrifle .
From what I have seen of Kibler's on this forum one of those would be the way to go

 

[TDM]

If the TCs are in the good condition you describe and you’re able to buy at a 20% reduction I say buy the .54 and buying the .45 wouldn’t be a mistake either. Your long rifle will come soon enough.

 

[M. De Land]

In my local shop there are two T/C Hawken Muzzleloaders. Both are flintlock and 28" Barrel. One is .45 caliber and the other is .54 caliber. Both rifles are in an 8/10 condition. They look excellent down the bore but the price has me halted. The .45 Hawken is $500 and the .54 Hawken is $600. The shop clerk said the prices can come down but not by more than 20% as they are on consignment. I havent had any luck in finding a flinter and the Penn Hunter I wanted sold before I could finally make my decision. My fork in the road that is holding me up is should I go for a Thompson Center ? I like the look of the long rifles but I dont know if I am ready to spend longrifle money. At that same point spending $400-600 now is more money after I spend $1200-$1700 for a longrifle later. I found a Dixie Gun Works Tenn Mtn Rifle that caught my eye on the internet but it was percussion so I would have to convert it which is about $250-300 and the rifle is $695.00. There is a nice .45 cal cherry stock rifle here on the forum but its $1600 and that would mean me throwing all my money at a small bore rifle. I will only be hunting white tails so it wouldnt be so bad I guess. I dont know where to go from here I guess... lol. I dont know if I should by a production model or go out and get a Kibler, Kashtuk, Cabin Creek, TVM, Jim Chambers or Penatonica. Anyone want to shed some light on my rather dreary situation.

My home state is Maryland and will be where I hunt. I hunt in Allegheny County and my property is in thr mountains so its hilly and wooded densely. Longest shots might be 80 yards... one day most wont top 50. Lowest legal caliber is .40 caliber with 60 gr of powder in a rifle and 40gr in a pistol. Like I said above this rifle will be a White Tail Deer hunting rifle. I know its sounds kinda dumb to ask this question here but its been knawing at me for the better bit of 3 months. Thanks to everyone who takes their time to read this and comment their thoughts and opinions.

I have both calibers and for what your doing all you need is the .45.

 

[deerstalkert]

if you buy the 45 TC, later you can find a 50cal barrel and possibly a 54 cal that will fit. i have one that way. most times the 54 is a 1" across the flats but the barrel channel in some TC's are loose enough to take them. I really like mine. the Frizzens on the TC's can be soft but can either be hardened easily or replaced for 35.00 with a Ox-yoke Lyman modified frizzen. i hardened mine while the replacement was in the bowels of usps somewhere and it works so well i never replaced it.

 

[PotomacRanger]

Here's some pictures of the hammer to identify the differences.

Thanks for the pictures. Both of the rifles based off the picture you linked show that they have the old lock. Would that mean the rifles arent worth the price ?

 

[Grenadier1758]

Not exactly, but it is a bargaining point. They may work just fine , but a lot of shooters have replaced the old hammer and frizzen to make their rifle more reliable. To get more spark and linger flint life.

 

[SciAggie]

You have to ask if you want to start shooting or you want to continue shopping. If they will come off the price 20%, buy the gun. So what if it's a tad "high" - you get to go out now and start shooting. Look, I get it, I don't have money to burn either - but time is also a precious commodity. If you keep the gun for any length of time it will appreciate and you can get your monety back of it. If you're like most of us here, you'll keep the gun forever anyway - and $80 now will not matter five years from now.

If you really want a long gun, then pass on the TC's and spend the money on a long gun.

 

[Col. Batguano]

If you have the desire, domestic support, place, skills, tools, and time then build. If you don't, then buy. The price of the parts set is just the entry point to the full cost of doing a build

 

[TDM]

@Col. Batguano is right about that. If you don’t have a basic assortment of decent woodworking tools that alone will add up in dollars. For me, having my shop stuffed with tools is half the fun, but not necessary I guess for others.

 

[Col. Batguano]

@TDM has it spot on.

I look at tools as a part of the cost of the project, amortized over the number of projects they're used for. If I buy the raw materials for $100, and tools for $100, then I have $200 in the project. If the finished project is worth $200, then I got the tools for free. If I use them again then I only have $50 in tools in each of the projects and I'm money ahead.

As an example, before I started building I had none of those small wood carving tools, or gravers and an engraving chasing hammer. Now that I have them I have found many (non gun building) uses for them as well, and the skills you acquire are directly transferable to many other things.

 

[M. De Land]

If your building and using quality parts your looking at around 1000 to 1100 dollars to begin with and that's on the low side.

 

[Flintlock]

Go to some local Black Powder shoots-rendezvous or other historical gatherings,. Some very nice used guns on the market. Search for clubs in your area and give them a call and ask around. The minute you buy one of those T/C it will be worth maybe half that at best when you want to sell it.

 

[TDM]

I never feel bad about buying good tools, if you take care them, they never need replacing.