Need some more advice, please. Acraglas application.

[Mule333]

Did a search… couldn’t find an answer. New build. Plain maple stock.

When would be the better time to add Acraglas to the barrel channel. In the “white” or after the rifle is color stained. Planning on a very dark stain. Trying to avoid a potential problem, not sure. Will the release agent mess up the stain? Pretty tight fit, gonna be some squeeze out.

Thanks, Mule333

 

[billraby]

That stuff is messy. Good chance you will be scraping some off the wood after it hardens and have to redo any stain already on there. My opinion is that you are best off not using it all unless there is a good reason for it.

 

[SDSmlf]

Many folks try and avoid using bedding material like Acraglas in traditional guns, but it does get used. In my opinion, use as early in the process as possible, use the included dye to match your finish color and keep it off all surfaces you don’t want it on. Not sure about your concern about release agent messing up stain, I’ve only applied release agent to metal surfaces, never to a wood surface that would be stained. I typical use Johnson Paste Wax or neutral colored shoe polish.

 

[Artificer]

Hi Mule,

I've got a LOT of good info for you, because I have forgotten how many untold dozens of unmentionable stocks I've "re-built" in the bedding areas with Accra Glas and then stained and refinished afterwards.

However, before I can begin, I have to know what kind of stain you plan on using? The reason for this is because of the way different stains are used and how that will affect the order you will need to do things.

In the meanwhile, I'm going to suggest you do NOT use the Accra Glas GEL for this project as it is going to be difficult using it on a barrel that is already fairly tightly bedded. Far, FAR Better to use the Plain Accra Glas for this job as it is "runnier" and you will need that for the "squeeze out" of the Accra Glas around the barrel.

BROWNELLS ACRAGLAS® | Brownells

So what stain do you plan to use?
Gus

 

[Mule333]

Hi Mule,

I've got a LOT of good info for you, because I have forgotten how many untold dozens of unmentionable stocks I've "re-built" in the bedding areas with Accra Glas and then stained and refinished afterwards.

However, before I can begin, I have to know what kind of stain you plan on using? The reason for this is because of the way different stains are used and how that will affect the order you will need to do things.

In the meanwhile, I'm going to suggest you do NOT use the Accra Glas GEL for this project as it is going to be difficult using it on a barrel that is already fairly tightly bedded. Far, FAR Better to use the Plain Accra Glas for this job as it is "runnier" and you will need that for the "squeeze out" of the Accra Glas around the barrel.

BROWNELLS ACRAGLAS® | Brownells

So what stain do you plan to use?
Gus

Laurel Mountain Forge Nut Brown, possibly followed by Birchwood Casey Tru Oil.

 

[Artificer]

Laurel Mountain Forge Nut Brown, possibly followed by Birchwood Casey Tru Oil.

Excellent, thank you.

Do you know about sealing a stock before you stain it, so as to make the stain color uniform and not have "splotches" in areas where end grain comes out? The end grain areas are around the front of the comb, the top and bottom of the wrist and on the underside of the stock.

Gus

 

[Mule333]

Not sure about your concern about release agent messing up stain, I’ve

Just wondering if the release agent were to drip off the barrel onto the stock.

 

[Artificer]

Just wondering if the release agent were to drip off the barrel onto the stock.

There is more to be concerned with, first.

Gus

 

[Mule333]

Excellent, thank you.

Do you know about sealing a stock before you stain it, so as to make the stain color uniform and not have "splotches" in areas where end grain comes out? The end grain areas are around the front of the comb, the top and bottom of the wrist and on the underside of the stock.

Gus

Hmmm… I’ve sealed other things such as mahogany, but not maple. Mainly because the grain is so tight in maple that it’s not needed.

But I do have multiple issues with grain direction with this stock…. LOTS of mineral streaks!

 

[Mule333]

Excellent, thank you.

Do you know about sealing a stock before you stain it, so as to make the stain color uniform and not have "splotches" in areas where end grain comes out? The end grain areas are around the front of the comb, the top and bottom of the wrist and on the underside of the stock.

Gus

I’m very much ok with using a sealer, no problem. What type sealer is the standard for maple gunstocks?

 

[SDSmlf]

Just wondering if the release agent were to drip off the barrel onto the stock.

If the release agent were to somehow drip you are doing something wrong. I apply the paste wax to the metal, let it dry for a few minutes, then wipe or polish with a dry cloth. To make sure no spots are missed, I apply two coats.

Curious as to why you feel the need to add glass to the barrel channel? Maybe some photographs to help explain the issue?

 

[Artificer]

Hmmm… I’ve sealed other things such as mahogany, but not maple. Mainly because the grain is so tight in maple that it’s not needed.

But I do have multiple issues with grain direction with this stock…. LOTS of mineral streaks!

Good! Glad you know about it and especially the issues with grain direction and mineral streaks, as well!

I'm not sure if I can give you all the info in one post, so I may have to type one or two more posts on it, so please understand.

First, you do NOT want to stain the stock before bedding it, as the Glass "squeeze out" will cause issues with the stain. ALSO, you don't want to stain or completely finish it before bedding for another reason. I assume you are going to be very careful not to "ding up" the stock while bedding and cleaning it up, BUT even so it is far too easy to ding it in one or more places when doing this work. This is a PITA to try to repair and blend in stain and finish after you raise and sand and dinged areas. Please TRUST me on this because having had it happen to me before, is the reason I suggest you do it in the following manner.

First, go ahead and trim/file/sand down the stock around the tang to the final dimension close to the surface of the tang. This will ensure you don't get a tiny amount of squeeze out of glass that can easily crack the stock over the tang, if you don't.

You already have the perfect sealer in the Tru Oil you already have, as that is what I always use.

So step One is to finish sanding the stock to the final dimensions then use a thinned coat of Tru Oil to seal the stock. You can thin it in a ratio of 1:1 with Isopropyl Alcohol. I would put two individually well rubbed coats of the thinned Tru Oil on the stock while waiting for it to harden/cure in between.

THEN I would put at least one more coat of "full strength" Tru Oil on the entire stock. The reason for this coat is Accra Glas can get on different parts of the stock and this will KEEP it from getting into the pores of the wood and ruining a stain and finish job. You will sand this coat down to bare wood after you get done using the Glas bedding.

OK, will stop there and add more in the next post.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

THEN I would put at least one more coat of "full strength" Tru Oil on the entire stock. The reason for this coat is Accra Glas can get on different parts of the stock and this will KEEP it from getting into the pores of the wood and ruining a stain and finish job. You will sand this coat down to bare wood after you get done using the Glas bedding.

OK, will stop there and add more in the next post.

Gus

Shucks! I forgot to add that this sanding will also allow you to fix any dings or scratches in the surface of the wood, that came up during bedding and before you apply the stain.

Also, you do NOT put any Tru Oil in the barrel channel or under the Tang as that will not allow the Accra Glass to stick to the wood.

Gus

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
I use the liquid not the gel because I am am not trying to fill gaps but rather paint the barrel channel with a varnish thin coat of AcraGlas that seals it and significantly strengthens the thin side walls (3x - 10x stronger than unpainted wood). I do this when the stock is still roughed out but you can do it on a precarve too. I stain the AcraGlas with Laurel Mountain Forge stains to be close to what the wood stain will look like but it does not need to be exact because you won't see it anyway. Below is a job I just completed for my Peter Berry rifle. You can still see the wood underneath an even pencil marks. I use the liquid and a little fiberglass floc for thickening but not much.

The over flow will stain the wood a little but that surface wood is removed anyway. Even on a precarve you should still be paring enough wood away so any surface staining disappears. It is just on the surface and does not penetrate very much.

dave

 

[Mule333]

If the release agent were to somehow drip you are doing something wrong. I apply the paste wax to the metal, let it dry for a few minutes, then wipe or polish with a dry cloth. To make sure no spots are missed, I apply two coats.

Curious as to why you feel the need to add glass to the barrel channel? Maybe some photographs to help explain the issue?

Being new to this, I thought that everyone “glassed” the first 12” at the breech. From the lock all the way to the rear site.

 

[Artificer]

Hi,
I use the liquid not the gel because I am am not trying to fill gaps but rather paint the barrel channel with a varnish thin coat of AcraGlas that seals it and significantly strengthens the thin side walls (3x - 10x stronger than unpainted wood). I do this when the stock is still roughed out but you can do it on a precarve too. I stain the AcraGlas with Laurel Mountain Forge stains to be close to what the wood stain will look like but it does not need to be exact because you won't see it anyway. Below is a job I just completed for my Peter Berry rifle. You can still see the wood underneath an even pencil marks. I use the liquid and a little fiberglass floc for thickening but not much.

The over flow will stain the wood a little but that surface wood is removed anyway. Even on a precarve you should still be paring enough wood away so any surface staining disappears. It is just on the surface and does not penetrate very much.

dave

That is an excellent glass job and explanation for why you do it.

Also, I wasn't sure if laurel mountain stain would affect the Glass setting up, so that is something the OP can really use to his benefit.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Being new to this, I thought that everyone “glassed” the first 12” at the breech. From the lock all the way to the rear site.

Some folks on this forum would be stunned just how many builders have used Accra Glas since the 1970's and similar to the manner Dave Person has done, plus for the same reasons.

Gus

 

[Mule333]

I’ve pretty much gone past what Dave has described. I’m about to “whisker” the stock and don’t have much left for cleanup. Soooo with that in mind, I’ll BACK OFF ON THE ACRAGLAS.

I feel pretty good about the barrel inlet that I did…. Took my time… did like Bill Raby and Mike Beliveau showed me in there videos.

 

[Artificer]

Mule,

OK, now you have to inspect the whole tang area before going further.

The sides and back of the ENTIRE tang HAVE to have at least a tiny amount inward "draft" or angle from top to bottom. Some tangs come that way and others don't, so you have to at least check for it.

What some folks will miss is the area behind the rear of the barrel.

This is excellent:

THIS CAN CAUSE REAL PROBLEMS WHEN USING BEDDING!!

The lower pic shows how the rear of the tang behind the threads MAY cause the tang to be locked into place by the fiberglass, because there is little or no inward draft or angle going towards the threads at the bottom. There doesn't have to be as much angle as in the top/bottom picture, but there has to be some angle there.

ALSO, if this area has a "Half Moon" or "D" shaped clearance for the lock bolt, that area has to be filled with clay right up to all surfaces around it. That will keep the Accraglass from oozing into the clearance and thus from locking it into the stock.

Gus

 

[Mule333]

Thank You so much Gus, thank you Dave, thank you Bill Raby.

Without You Guys us newbies would be lost… up a creek without a paddle.

I’m sure I’ll have more questions in the future.

Thanks, Mule