Negativity towards Traditions guns

[Hawk78]

That's a great post coming from a guy who wears a frock and a ball cap.......
HAWK - you know I'm kidding .....
You would not believe some of the downright hateful things some of these self professed perfectionists have called me.
Interestingly enough, the 3 worst ones I have ran across here are no longer active on the forum. When you run across one of them, ask them how they got to their last shoot. Horseback or pickup or car or on foot wearing moccasins.
Most who behave that way are insecure wimps that only do it while hiding behind a keyboard. Just ignore them. They eventually wither away into their own world of self admiration.
And then you have a few here that have worked really hard to have the super nice things they desire. And they are eager to share their knowledge and help the rest of us that get by with the best we can. These are the true originalists....

I really like that, thanks Griz44Mag.

 

[azmntman]

I started on CVA kit and still have mostly CVA and Traditions. Have killed many many elk and deer with both. Also several invest arms and a Lyman (investarms) as well as an unknown Spanish 20ga dbl barrel. Will one day have a Kibler. That will be my "custom".

Now I am aware that some will argue it aint a custom cuz it was machined with many others and pre inleted etc etc. So? My German shepherds smarter than yer kid but I wont flaunt it.

Yep CVA/Traditions etc are wonderful wonderful things! And cant wait for a Kibler!! It'll be all the custom I want/need. Until I win the Powerball then I will really be looking to own and shoot an original shot by brother Boone or Brother Crockett.

 

[steam1993]

Ok, so do i get to look down on every one now, as i own 4 cannons and a mortar. OK Just joking.
I love all shooting black powder, and have fired matchlock, flint and percussion, guns. And i don't care how much they cost, yes i would love to own a custom made one, but will never be in my budget(have some steam toys to get first). So let's just enjoy what we have and get on together, as that what the hobby is all about?.

 

[arcticap]

The most hostility that I've encountered on internet forums is directed against the Deerhunter that has a plastic stock.
Some have commented that a plastic stock has no business being on a "traditional"muzzle loader.
But its price is $80 - $90 less then the wood stock model which pays for many of the accessories needed for a newbie to get started shooting.
And if you look at the reviews of it on MidwayUSA, every one gives it a rating of 4 or 5 stars.
How many other companies offer a sidelock with a nitride or cerakote barrel?
Or a flintlock that has a camo stock, a fast twist or a removable breech plug?
Or an affordable Blunderbuss kit?
My plastic Deerhunter barrel is nickeled inside and out, and it's the slickest barrel of any gun that I've ever owned.
And it's also one of the cheapest, but it's loads of fun!
Just ask the young flintlock shooters in Pennsylvania which brand of muzzle loaders that they're buying for their flintlock only deer season.
Many young folks like black plastic stocks and raining on them is a way to alienate a generation of ML hunters and shooters, and many residents of a state that's flintlock friendly.
And Traditions makes kits that some youth are having fun building to get started in the BP hobby.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I not offended by blue ware, or modern cast iron shapes ect. We now have options that is not generally too high priced to replace it with a pot closer to what was used then.
That carries it’s own price. As there are things you can do with modern enamel ware you can’t do with a tin or copper kettle.
How does that relate to a Traditions rifle?
A quick look at a good firearms museum will turn up lots of guns that look awful close to a traditions or CVA. In its price range it fits with our sport.
It’s a lot cheaper then a three k gun. Where as there is not much difference between good enamel ware and tinware.
Of course you have to look close. They all tend to be black on the fire.

Tenn -- RELAX ----- I was being funny!!!! I don't even own a campfire pot. I use a singles coffee bags when in camp....and I heat my water over a propane stove. (A period correct propane stove though)

 

[Greg Blackburn]

Something I have been wondering about, what was the comment that annoyed the OP so much?

 

[Griz44Mag]

Ok, so do i get to look down on every one now, as i own 4 cannons and a mortar. OK Just joking.
I love all shooting black powder, and have fired matchlock, flint and percussion, guns. And i don't care how much they cost, yes i would love to own a custom made one, but will never be in my budget(have some steam toys to get first). So let's just enjoy what we have and get on together, as that what the hobby is all about?.

If you want to look down on me it's OK, just leave the cannon at home when you do... - P.PLEASE!

 

[LuVerne Schumann]

Back in the sixties and seventies many "cheaper" guns and kits were sold. Most were made in Spain and of questionable quality. The early CVA Flintlocks were a poor designed gun , but the percusions were quite accurate. As time went on the quality improved to the point where the CVA mountain rifles with the "made in USA" barrels were considered top quality.I have assembled over fifty CVA kits. And noticed a big improvement as time went on. Yes, some people think only hand made custom guns are worth having . I have seen people shooting factory CVA's out shoot people with $3000 custom rifles. But then I own fords and only drive Mercedes and BMW's when driving my patrona.

I lived that butt pain. My first two guns were a CVA percussion and flint. The percussion was dead nuts accurate and I would still have it today if it hadn't been stolen. The CVA flint couldn't hit a barn from the inside.

On the so-called cheap gun shaming. I've seen way more threads on this board started by drama queens with affordable guns freaking out because someone dared to question the HC or value of said cheaper guns, than of people actually shaming anyone because they shoot and like the less expensive options.

I live on both sides of the issue and frankly think it's overstated.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I lived that butt pain. My first two guns were a CVA percussion and flint. The percussion was dead nuts accurate and I would still have it today if it hadn't been stolen. The CVA flint couldn't hit a barn from the inside.

On the so-called cheap gun shaming. I've seen way more threads on this board started by drama queens with affordable guns freaking out because someone dared to question the HC or value of said cheaper guns, than of people actually shaming anyone because they shoot and like the less expensive options.

I live on both sides of the issue and frankly think it's overstated.

True and very well said,

 

[TNGhost]

I wish I could delete my original post. Damn, I didn't know I would start all of this. Excuse me to all of you. And no, no more crying from this Karen!

Don't sweat it. Judging by some of the responses you have brought back some great memories for some of us. I know you have for me.

So I have been around black powder guns for a long time about 50 years. Back when I got my first as a kid, it was a CVA, what would be Traditions today, Back then there was not a lot of choice and there was no "internet" full of, ...ideas, and as a kid I was tickled with my CVA and nobody could tell me that it "wasn't good enough".

To be a snob back then you had to have a real original gun.

I think we all in some way owe a debt of gratitude for the contributions CVA, and Traditions, and others like them have made to the hobby. They have brought a lot of people into it, and I hate to think what it would be like now without companies like them. They have brought a lot of enjoyment to a lot of people.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Back in the early 70's I met an elderly gent with an heirloom collection of vintage rifles. They were accumulated by an ancestor and passed down thru his family generations. It was his turn to care for them, and in his mind,that meant shooting them. Every single one was an example of the riflebuilder's art, obviously owned by more well-to-do folks. It was a thrill to watch him shoot them; he never brought the same rifles to the range. It was an honor of a lifetime to actually be invited to shoot any of them whenever he was at the range. I'll wager that I've fired more original rifles, mostly flintlocks, than anyone else here. It set the stage for my lofty goals to have a custom rifle someday. Meanwhile my Dad built a .40 cal percussion rifle & I have it today. I went on to shoot many more rifles belonging to friends and fellow shooters, but it was one day when a cranky old guy, the father of 2 of my my buddies, cussed me out and told me that I needed to go get a rifle of my own. I didn't have Dad's rifle yet, and my Gallagher breechloader didn't count for much. He was a snooty old opinionated guy who would gripe at the other guys who had commercial rifles like TC & Lymans, but nobody paid him any mind ... except for me. My first rifle was a lefty flintlock .50 cal GPR. I was proud of it, having stripped & reshaped the stock & refinished it - nevertheless the old guy gave me his own brand of verbal disapproval. After I fired my rifle a few times & passed it around for the others to try, the old man finally shut up. Nevertheless, I was really upset - the rifle shot as well as any there, and I stood in front of the old man & told his sons that I was proud of my commercial gun & maybe they needed to leave the cranky geezer home next time. They did, and I never saw him again. About a year or so later he died of a stroke & its' complications, aggravated by old age. I felt badly about it, since, although he never had a good word to say about anyone or anything, he did somewhat serve, in a backhanded way, as motivation to do better.

Today, I have accumulated several rifles, all commercially made. I built a couple of smoothbores, and I have the rifle my Dad built. I'm satisfied with the way they all shoot, and offer them to anyone at the range to try out. I've never had anyone refuse any of my rifles because they weren't "good enough".

 

[Crow-Feather]

The value of any object is determined by how well the object performs it's designated function. A rifle's looks, cost, or type of ignition mean nothing if the rifle can't consistently hit what it is being shot at. A short stocked rifle that my wife shoots is worth nothing to me and my 14 inch length of pull is useless to her. I might admire a pretty rifle but would not pay much for it if I can't hit anything with it.
Those who look down their noses when carrying an expensive, great looking rifle provide the humor at shoots when they can't keep lead inside the 7 ring.

 

[FishDFly]

Said as well as can be said.

 

[LawrenceA]

For me there is value in something that brings me joy. Regardless of its performance. Thinking of the kids here.

I have guns I shoot and appreciate and some I can only clean and handle but they bring me joy and as such have value to me.
I have some guns that I stripped and rebuilt that bring back many fond memories regardless of how misguided my efforts in their make overs.

I understand that function is important but to me so is form.
To have both is a thing of wonder.

Think I will go and get my CVA flinter out for a bit........

 

[Cowboy]

My philosophy on all of this? Ya never put down another’s gun.

Seen shooter’s during competitions with CVA’s and the like smoke good shooters with high end guns.

There’s always something better than what you have. There’s also something that’s not as good as well?

From high to low or low to high, my advice would be, go out and make smoke with what ever you have? It’s all about the person behind the gun pulling that trigger that really makes the true difference?

Lastly, I personally own from low to high and see no problems with owning a Traditions muzzleloader my friend.

Enjoy your muzzleloader and have a great day of shooting.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[ugly old guy]

Most accurate ML I've ever had was a "lowly" made in Spain with Spanish barrel .45 caliber percussion CVA "Kentucky" rifle kit gun , closely followed by a .50 caliber CVA percussion "Mountain" rifle or whatever they called it. (half stock "Hawken" type)
With either rifle a 1 inch diameter broomstick at 100 yards was an "easy kill".
Using the "Kentucky" rifle at a Rendezvous in the shootin' match, NOBODY beat me in the shooting portion. (I lost the match in the knife and tomahawk throwing parts)

The (pre-fire) Thompsin Cented .54 caliber Hawken rifle I currently havd is plenty accurate.

I DON'T CARE it isn't "hitorically accurate" or "period correct". I ain't either!
If I was "historically accurate"/"period correct" I'd more than likely be pushing up weeds. Few made it to my age back in the day.

Hadies!, (pardon my language) I need a daRn rollator (4 wheel walker) to walk as much as 1/4 mile. (a cane don't cut it. I gotta sit a spell and wait for pain in hips and knees to subside, even with a cane.)
Hence regardless of what I was wearing, or rifle I was toting, I'd be as unwelcome at a Rendezvous these days as a herd of upset hair trigger skunk.

Do I get all 1800's or earler when/if I manage to go hunting?
Nope.
No reason to.

I'd actually like to get a Traditions "Kentucky" flintlock rifle. Unfortunately, unless there us a second round of stimulus money, that is so far outside my budget, it may as well be in another galaxy.
A historically accurate/period correct rifle? Not in this lifetime; Not even for the period when a Winchester or Marlin lever action would be appropriate.

 

[Rudall]

There is snobbery here, that is true.

Look at the way flintlock shooters view percussion shooters.

And that is bizarre in its own way. After all, back when cap guns were the latest thing, wouldn’t the situation have been the other way around?

 

[TFoley]

'Shoot what you brung' is the tenet that I live by. I'm reminded of an international competition from a few years back where one of the competitors, having come from a country that does not allow BP firearms of any kind, borrowed a nice older Navy Arms .36cal revolver and totally wiped the floor with the opposition - ALL of it - they might have been shooting on another range for all the good it did them. 25 and 50m target, duelling and charging man - it was all the same to him. He even offered to pay for the powder, ball and caps, and declined to be photographed face-on for security reasons in his homeland.

 

[RobinR]

I love all shooting black powder,. My first BP is a Thompson Center New Englander .50 cal lefl-handed. I still love it. Now being an empty nest I can get a flintlock kit to build. To me what if anyone can afford to get is great. Just enjoy it.

 

[TomV]

I got a used CVA/Jukar many years ago because that is all I could afford at the time. Likely myself and many others would never get into this sport if it wasn't for these cheaper guns so they do have their place P.C. or not.

Absolute truth, the low cost of acquiring and shooting these versus center fire guns if huge, but the biggest attraction in the black powder camp is the people and comrades.