New Flintlock Will Not Shoot Round Balls

[ruderam]

Good Evening Everyone:

I am a brand new member to the site and I'm hopeful to get some advise from the experts here.

I have several years invested in BP shooting and own a number of BP guns, have several pistols and rifles. Most are #11 & 209's. This is my first Flinlock. I have never had misfire problems in the past with my other BP guns and that is why I am here.

I have a brand new Investarms .50CAL Flintlock Hawkins. (I know, most of you may not like such a cheap rifle but I'm on a budget and love Black Powder Shooting).

This gun just refuses to fire a patched round ball. The pan goes off just fine and that is it, (I'm using FFF GOEX in the pan), can not find FFFF GOEX. When I load the PRB I push it down lightly on the powder. Just to the point where I can feel the grains crunch a touch via the ram rod. I have tried many rounds using GOEX FF & a few using Triple 7 FF in the chamber.

Now, if I load my normal powder charge of 80gr. and shove a wad on top it ALWAYS goes off! If I push a T/C [modern projectile] down the barrel it goes off EVERY TIME!

I have tried using a touch hole pick during loading the gun with no difference in results.

Do any of you have an thoughts? If this gun will only shoot [modern projectiles] that is OK I just felt it should be able to shoot everything!

Look forward to your advise!

T.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Obviously it is impossible that the rifle knows what you are loading, so it has to be how you are loading the two different choices. A patched ball should be lubed with as little lube as possible. Could be you're patch is too wet. Even then it should still go off unless you left it long time loaded.

Triple 7 will not work for flintlocks. You need to prime and use real black powder as the main charge. Synthetics are not combustable enough.

 

[Drago]

Try putting a wad under the patched ball, you can see if the patched ball is to wet,a least eliminate one issue.The powder does'nt sound like the problem if it shoots the non round balls. I don't know alot about flint locks so take it for what it's worth.

 

[larry wv]

How many times is every time? It should go off with either load one as well as the other. Larry

 

[nmdd]

I have the same rifle I built from a kit. I drilled the touch hole out to 5/64. I use Swiss 4f in the pan and Swiss 3f in the chamber. I also wipe the pan between every shot and put a feather in the touch while loading. So far I have had 100% ignition using this method, however I am very new to this sport and others may have different results. :hatsoff:

 

[Matt85]

im no expert on flintlocks but i seriously doubt the rifle is refusing to fire PRBs.

some ideas:

1. the patch is too wet. (as suggested above)
2. your doing something different when you load PRBs then you normally do with non-PRBs.
3. having someone who has more blackpowder experience watch you load might be a good idea.
4. do not use black powder subs in a flintlock!

hope you get it running soon.

-Matt

 

[ruderam]

Thank you so much for your replys!!!

When I say the gun go's off everytimne it is loarded with EITHER GOEX FFg OR FFg Trple 7 ot does it no matter if it is GOEX FF or Trible 7.

The ONLY THING that makes a difference is it the projectile is a PRB or a [modern projectile]. The [modern projectile] ALWAYS FIRES off w/o ANY PROPLEMS. The PRB just will not light off!!!!!

I really think I'm packing the PRB down on the powder too hard. Even if I run a pipe cleaner in the touch hole it will not fire off a PRB.....

Again, if this gun will only fire [modern projectiles] I can live with that. I don't want too but I can live with that if that is how it has to be.....

Thank you again!!!!!!

T.

 

[redwing]

With your patched round ball you are blowing patch lube thru the vent. You did not say what you are using for patch lube and how much.

 

[buzz]

sounds like as stated wet patch or the touch hole is plugged
pyrodex and powder pellets just not wrok in a flinter
try an un patched ball once you know your vent is open see what you get
also real black is the only powder one should use in flintlock

 

[Zonie]

ruderam"

Well, something is weird here.

The pans charge and the main powder charge don't have the foggiest idea what sort of projectile is sitting on top of the powder charge.

Assuming the powder charge being used is the same for the patched roundball as it is for the conical, either should work.

Are you using the same amount of powder under the patched roundball as you are for the conicals?

As far as the granulation you are using in the pan, 3Fg will work just like 3F works.
Some say it is just a bit slower and Pletch's tests indicate it is. It's a few thousandths of a second slower.
Not something that's noticeable by most humans.

As for 777, I'm surprised it's working as well as you indicate.
Usually it has a noticeable delay (if it lights at all).

 

[Diggerfly]

ruderam

Perhaps it would be helpful if you write out step by step every thing you do while loading a patched RB (including how you lube the patch and what you use to do so) Put every detail down and what you are using. Maybe this will clarify the problem...

One thing we can be sure of, its not the RB that's the issue here. The powder going off is independent of what type of bullet is placed on top of it.

 

[Matt85]

ruderam

Perhaps it would be helpful if you write out step by step every thing you do while loading a patched RB (including how you lube the patch and what you use to do so) Put every detail down and what you are using. Maybe this will clarify the problem...

One thing we can be sure of, its not the RB that's the issue here. The powder going off is independent of what type of bullet is placed on top of it.

this!

there is no flintlock out there that wont fire a PRB! shooting conicals in a flinter will bring the wrath of the PC police upon you and might even get some raised eyebrows from us non-PC guys.

im not really big into the PC thing, but even i dont like the idea of using conicals in a flitlock. :nono:

-Matt

 

[Stony]

Are you clearing the touch hole after you have loaded BUT before you prime? Are you using a touch hole pick or a nipple pick? You might be pushing some fouling into the touch hole and blocking it. Get a paperclip that fits in your touch hole and then use that after you loaded the chamber/round but before you prime. Make sure the paperclip goes through the powder to the other side of the chamber. Check while unloaded as how far the paperclip needs to go to reach the other side of the chamber.

 

[flashingpan]

Hello everyone! This is my first post on these forums, and I am having similar problems as the OP. Which is why I joined this forum, and also has a lot to do with my user name. LoL.

Where my issues differ is that when I was shooting on the range I was having no problems with misfires, but while I was squirrel hunting, I would get misfires like crazy. On one load, I shot seven pan's before the gun went off. I was wearing out flints like crazy. I'm shooting a Lyman trade rifle. It's my first flint gun, so it's not an expensive one.

However, I did make some observations about the differences between my range shooting, and field shooting.

On the range, I took my time cleaning and loading the rifle between shots, particularly the pan and went area. While in the field, I found that I was loading much faster trying to get a second shot off before the squirrels took off for good. I also made a mental note about the fact that when I'm on the range, the load is shot almost immediately, while in the field, it may be up to an hour before I shoot the load. I'm using pre-lubed wonderlube patches.

I read through some of the previous posts, and paid special attention to a thread regarding touch hole diameters. In the field I'm sure my touch hole is getting clogged a lot faster because of the added grime and the fact that I'm loading and shooting much faster. So I did end up opening up my touch hole with a #51 drill. Luckily I used to work in a machine shot, and our factory kept all the old machines even after they shut down the machining portion, so I have a lot of tools at my disposal. I haven't had a chance to do any field shooting with the drilled out hole yet.

What I do notice though is that sometimes when I was getting misfires, I couldn't feel any powder if I picked the hole. Any chance this fancy patent breech is prevent powder from getting in next to the touch hole?

Should I try a buffer between the pre-lubed patch and the ball? I have noticed some blow throughs in my found patches.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but we're having similar problems and maybe we can come to a conclusion with out combined efforts.

Cheers guys.

 

[Clovis]

Sir I have a few questions. You use 80 grains in your non-PRB loads but don't say what is used with your ball loads, could you specify? You say you cannot get a ball to fire, what method of removal do you use to get the ball out? How many times have you tried to fire a ball?
As others have said, I would like to know what lube and size of ball and other specifics if you can add that.
Oh, and is the barrel perfectly dry when you load?
Thanks

 

[Birddog6]

The rifle has a patent breech, so I feel when you are loading the PRB, it is blowing the powder & More moist air thru the patent breech & causing the ignition issue. When loading a bullet or wad, the moist air is escaping around the projectile rather than thru the patent breech.

Try this....
Swab the bore dry.

Prime the pan & flash that pan powder off. (no powder in the barrel)

Now load the powder charge.

Bump the sideplate with the heel of your hand to encourage the patent breech to fill, then load the PRB.

Load the PRB & try it.


Also using to much patch lube will force moisture into the breech when you load it.

A humid day will develop more moisture when loading, so may need to cut back on the lube. If this is the case, when you push that PRB down the bore, you are forcing all that moisture out the vent hole & that is wetting the powder... thus no ignition.

If swabbing, use less lube & try that. Also the shape of your jag when swabbing & material will make a dif on a rifle with a patent breech. You can easily pack one full of fouling, rather than remove fouling.

But as previously said, the rifle don't know what is going into the barrel. Loading a patched round ball will seal more than a bullet, thus you are pushing more damp air, powder, fouling into the patent breech......

Also, having a vent with a .070 to .078 hole in it may help. You can drill one out easily with a 5/64" drill bit & if ya don't like it, just install a new vent liner. I cone mine on the inside & lightly on the outside.

Keith Lisle

 

[Rifleman1776]

I agree with all the others. The rifle doesn't care if you have a bullet or prb in the bore. Something else is going on with yer rifle and loading procedure.
Where in Missouri do you live? There are several ml clubs and many experienced shooters in your state that can help you. My club is in MO. PT me with your location. Maybe we can find you some in-person help.

 

[Dphar]

You need to find out what, besides the round ball and the patch is different. It has to be something YOU are doing. Because as others have stated the powder will react the same regardless if the powder is dry and the vent clear.

Dan

 

[smoothshooter]

I think your gun may have a "patent breech" with a drastically smaller diameter hole / chamber than the bore has, and the patched ball, being a tighter air seal, is forcing a lot more air through the chamber area and taking all of the powder laying against the inside of the vent right out the vent hole with it.(Birddog 6 touched on this a little) You can test this by loading with the pan cover closed, after removing the flint from the jaws and wrapping or covering the face of the frizzen well with leather or some similar material for safety; or better yet remove the hammer entirely. After loading the patched ball in the barrel, open the pan cover. If it is full, or has a considerable ammount of powder in it, that is what is happening. I have heard of people having this antechamber machined off of the breech face, making sure the remaining breech plug has enough thread engagement to be safe. While I admit to having only limited experience with patent breeches with drastically reduced diameter chamber holes, I think they are more trouble than they are worth. I am aware of the reasons they were originally developed 200 or more years ago; they just complicate the cleaning process too much for me.- Smoothshooter

 

[Birddog6]

I would not consider machining off the face of a patent breech, because in doing so you will expose threads where it was previously engaged, thus a place where fouling will trap & etc.

However, I have seen allot of the patent breeches counterbored to a larger dia, thus siad to help in ignition issues. I have an old shotgun barrel that has a snail breech in it & upon removing, found the breech to be V shape bored back into it.

Keith Lisle