New Flintlock Will Not Shoot Round Balls

[ebiggs1]

Boy I simply can not remember when one of my flintlocks didn't shoot. I don't do any extraordinary procedures but I still get what I consider normal performance. Anything less, is unacceptable. :grin:

Flashingpan you need to go back to square one. Clean your gun thoroughly, I mean thoroughly, not just clean. You should be using GOEX 3F (70 grs) load and GOEX 4F prime and don't be skimpy with it (the prime that is). It is good you enlarged the Lyman touch hole. Coning the out side is also good. :thumbsup:
But the Lyman cock is also poorly designed. You are only getting ½ use of your frizzen. Put an extra piece of leather under the flint to raise it up slightly (1/8th inch). This gives a better angle to the frizzen and about 2/3 rds usage. Better yet get a new style TC cock and replace the Lyman. :thumbsup:

Don't use a lead wrap! :td:


Ruderam , you are missing something, or not telling the exact conditions. Try this method: :hmm:

Clean the gun, thoroughly, really clean.
60 grs GOEX 3F main load
2/3 rd pan full of GOEX 4F prime up against the touch hole which has been opened up to .070 and possibly coned.
.018 pillow ticking patch that is large enough with Bore Butter lube.
Sharp black English flint leather wrapped with a 1/8th inch thick extra piece of leather under it.
490 Hornady round ball.
This combo will work. :wink:
You do have plain GOEX and not GOEX Pinnacle? Pinnacle will not work well neither does 777 so stop that practice. :td:

 

[ruderam]

Thank you EVERYONE with your replies!!! I could not believe how many of you took the time to respond, again, THANK YOU!

I know there are several of you that want to know my exact process when loading. I will list everything below. Other than the projectile nothing changes.

Gun is an new INVESTARMS HAWKINS FLINTLOCK .50CAL w/ aftermarket English Flint. Gun was completely cleaned & is after each shooting session.

WHEN SHOOTING A P.R.B.
-Run 2 - 3 dry patches down the smoke pole until they are clean and dry.
-Hornaday .490 lead balls
-Borebutter Pre Lubed Patch .015.(Pretty dry, will NOT leave a residue on the crown of the barrel).
-80 Grains GOEX FFg in the barrel (Have tried 777).
-GOEX FFFg in the pan. Pan ALWAYS LIGHTS OFF.
-Pan filled between 1/3 to 1/2 and favor the right side so as not to block touch hole.
-3/4" English Flints & square to the face.
-Lead around the flint (Have used Leather w/o a change).
-Aways have a touch hole pick inserted during loading the powder & ball.
-Press the PRB down until I feel a slight compact of the powder, (I can feel a very slight crunch then I stop).
-Pull the set trigger and then hair.
-Will re-try after a flash in the pan up to 5 times running a pick in the touch hole after each failed time.
-Pull the PRB w/ a worm and have to really dig out the power charge. It will just not pour out.

WHEN SHOOTING A "M.P."
-Run 2 - 3 dry patches down the smoke pole until they are clean and dry.
-T/C Shockwave 250 M.P.
-80 Grains GOEX FFg OR Tripple 7 NEVER matters in the barrel.
-GOEX FFFg in the pan. Pan ALWAYS LIGHTS OFF.
-Pan filled between 1/3 to 1/2 and favor the right side so as not to block touch hole.
-3/4" English Flints & square to the face.
-Lead around the flint (Have used Leather w/o a change).
-Aways have a touch hole pick inserted during loading the powder & ball.
-Press the M.P. down until I feel a slight compact of the powder, (I can feel a very slight crunch then I stop).
-Pull the set trigger and then hair.
-Have NEVER had a fail to fire, no matter if it were Tripple 7 OR GOEX FFg.

Again, I with most of you, am dumb founded with this crazy thing!!! It will shoot a M.P. no matter what, even if I'm sloppy in my prep. But, drop a P.R.B. down the barrel and just a flash in the pan is all I get.

I'm not new to shooting at all. I have 30+ modern firearms and 10 black powder guns. Have NEVER had a B.P. refuse to FIRE a particular projectile but this one does.

Not sure that any of this will unlock any new ideas but wanted to make sure you all knew how the gun is loaded each and every time.

Thank you again EVERYONE!!!

T.

 

[Zonie]

As was mentioned your rifle has a "patent breech" or powder chamber.

Because of this there is a smaller hole that connects the powder in the bore with the vent hole.

While a percussion cap can create enough flame to pass thru this connecting hole to the powder in the barrel, a flintlock requires some of the powder in the main charge to be blown thru this small hole so that it comes to rest right up against the inside of the vent hole.

Loading with the vent hole plugged as you are doing prevents the air under the ball from blowing the powder over to the vent hole as the ball is rammed.

Try loading without the vent pick inserted.
After ramming the ball but before priming the pan, run the vent pick thru the vent, remove it and then prime the pan.

I suspect this will greatly improve your guns reliability.

 

[ruderam]

Good Evening Jim:

Thank you for your post. I will take your advise this coming weekend. I just really hope I can get this gun figured out. As it will NOT shoot PRB's thus far, I'm getting her REALLY dialed in with modern projectile's and she does that VERY WELL so far.

Take care,
T.

 

[tv_racin_fan]

If that thing is shooting sabotted rounds to any account I wonder what sort of twist the barrel has.

 

[Drago]

Good luck and let us know what works for you.

 

[ruderam]

The rate of twist is 1/48 on this gun and it can shoot a "pretty good" 6 group at 100 yards. My percussion Hawkins shoots the same with the same load.

T.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Hello everyone! This is my first post on these forums, and I am having similar problems as the OP.

. . .

Should I try a buffer between the pre-lubed patch and the ball? I have noticed some blow throughs in my found patches.

Not trying to hijack this thread, but we're having similar problems and maybe we can come to a conclusion with out combined efforts.

Cheers guys.

Welcome! :hatsoff:

Buffers were not necessary in the first 450 years and shouldn't be now. It does take some time to wear down the crisp rifling modern machining provides to keep from violating patches. Usually 200 shots and things settle down.

Most modern folk WAAAAY overthink muzzleloaders. These firearms were designed to be used in rustic, if not primative conditions and are NOT fussy. That is why most of us here love them.

 

[ebiggs1]

Man this is just not adding up. :shocked2:
Forget the RB vs the plastic bullet, if your gun is firing at all with 777, it's working perfectly. Way better than most flintlocks because they won't shoot 777 very well at all. And when they do it is almost useless.
There is one thing that RB and sabots don't have in common and that is lube. You never use lube with a plastic bullet. :td:
I am going to ask you to try the suggestions I gave in my first post. No matter how you are loading now stop it and do them, Please, because that will work. :thumbsup:
Do as Mr. Zonie says and remove the touch hole pick. With a proper touch hole liner, you don't even need a vent pick.
One other gross error you are making is priming away from the touch hole. Prime against it and even let some trickle in. And 2/3 rds full. :thumbsup:

 

[Dane]

Just a thought. It sounds like, for some reason, your patched round ball is possibly covering the touch hole??
Try upping your charge 10gr. use ONLY black powder, NO Substitutes. They just will NOT go off consistently in a flinter. Either your touch hole is blocked, and no spark is getting to the main charge, or your powder is wet with lube.

Not rocket science.
Hope this helps.

 

[tv_racin_fan]

Color me flabbergasted.

I have never used my pick on a flintlock, never had need so far.

I simply close my frizzen and pour the powder in the bore, slap the side a time or two, then grab a patch and center it on the bore, then place a ball sprue side up on the patch, and short start it, then grab the ram rod and drive it home. Open the frizzen and put my prime in then close er back. Cock and fire. When I hunted and saw nothing I simply cleaned the prime out and put the rifle in the corner until I was redy to shoot her, then I simply reprimed and she fired right off.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Color me flabbergasted.

I have never used my pick on a flintlock, never had need so far.

I simply close my frizzen and pour the powder in the bore, slap the side a time or two, then grab a patch and center it on the bore, then place a ball sprue side up on the patch, and short start it, then grab the ram rod and drive it home. Open the frizzen and put my prime in then close er back. Cock and fire. When I hunted and saw nothing I simply cleaned the prime out and put the rifle in the corner until I was redy to shoot her, then I simply reprimed and she fired right off.

That is a very dangerous procedure.
Closing the frizzen for charging loading is a huge NO-NO.
My flint rifles will fire about 75% of the time unprimed.
Charge with frizzen open. Always.
Now, I know someone is going to come along and quote from a Rev. War manual about loading procedure. We ain't in a way. Priming before charging was done for speed with the knowledge that some of the soliders would blow their hands and/or face off in the process.
I'm not a mod, but I believe your post should be deleted because it is such dangerous advice.

 

[ebiggs1]

That is a very dangerous procedure.

And very, very unlikely to have a mishap. If that was the most dangerous thing he, or I do, I think we will survive.
I would check for a lightning strike or a winning lottery ticket first! :grin:

 

[gl1200a]

That is a very dangerous procedure.

And very, very unlikely to have a mishap. If that was the most dangerous thing he, or I do, I think we will survive.
I would check for a lightning strike or a winning lottery ticket first! :grin:

"I simply close my frizzen and pour the powder in the bore, slap the side a time or two,"

Your condoning this practice?
Frizzen CLOSED and slapping the gun?
Hell why not set the trigger too if it's that safe?

 

[Zonie]

There are an average of 50 deaths per year from lightning strikes.

While that's not a lot, it probably is to the members of the families involved.

I consider the members on this forum to be pretty much family and I don't want to see them zapped by lightning or shot or burned while loading their rifles so I'll agree with the others.

Leave the cock at half-cock and the pan open while loading a flintlock.

 

[Bear Rider]

That is a very dangerous procedure.

And very, very unlikely to have a mishap. If that was the most dangerous thing he, or I do, I think we will survive.
I would check for a lightning strike or a winning lottery ticket first! :grin:

It may not be as safe as you think. The one and only time that I tested this with my flintlock target pistol, it fired instantly without any priming powder in the pan. Just think of opening the frizzen as being analogous to engaging the thumb safety on a 1911.

 

[ebiggs1]

Well certainly there are “odds” to virtually everything a person does, Do you know of any documented cases where a person was harmed by leaving his frizzen closed while loading?
I doubt it.

I consider the members on this forum to be pretty much family and I don't want to see them zapped by lightning or shot or burned while loading their rifles

This is an insulting statement.
No one wants anybody hurt by any means. Your feelings about forum members are not above mine.

I am not his spokesperson or defender but if this is the most dangerous thing he does, in his life, he will most assuredly be alright.

If you are still so worried about an unprimed flintlock going off, use a frizzen stall. Or, you could be safer still and quit shooting all together.

 

[Dphar]

Unless it has a good stalking safety and it was engaged I would not load with the frizzen closed.
Many English shotguns were self priming. But they were often loaded by servants.
And some had stalking safeties and some had gravity safeties that engaged with the gun vertical.
I have seen a rifle fire from 1/2 cock while the shooter was on the line with the butt on the ground. It was a short barreled factory made percussion. How it missed his hat brim I do not know.
So it can happen.

Dan

 

[Zonie]

Do I know of any documented cases? I don't have to know of any documented cases to recognize the potential for an accident.

There are many documented cases of a flintlock firing with an unprimed pan. Just read the posts by others in this topic.

I (and I'm sure many others) have also seen a hammer or cock fall from the half cock position.
Perhaps the sear wasn't fully engaged with the half cock notch (as in my case)? Perhaps the half cock notch or the sear broke?
It really doesn't matter. It can and has happened in the past and it will happen in the future.

Many of us have given our reasons in this topic for not closing the pan with the gun at half-cock while loading.

I am anxiously waiting for you to tell us all why it's a good idea to close the pan while he is loading his gun.

 

[jerrywh]

Most of the guns I build will fire with an unprimed pan at least 1/3 of the time possibly more often. Loading with the frizzen down is a very bad idea. The English did it at times for two reasons. The first reason is if the lock had a sliding safety latch. The second instance was for their army in combat so I have read. They figured that if their soldiers primed the pan before they loaded the barrel in combat they could get off one or two more shots per minute.
The extra fire power was worth the extra casualties. After all they were just commoners.