New Green Mountain Barrel

[ndbilly]

How many rounds do you think it takes before a new barrel is properly seasoned and should start settling down? Have about 15 shots through the above and it's still all over the paper at 50 yards. I mean an 8", six shot group. Here's my drill. Swab with lighter fluid first to remove any remnants of Bore Butter, etc. Dry. 70 gr of 2F then an overwad. .531 PRB using .018" pillow ticking lightly lubed with Bore Butter. 4F in the pan. Swab with light coat of Bore Butter between shots. Loads easily all day long. I should mention that this is a drop in barrel on a TC Renegade stock. Try to be as consistent as possible with all of the above. Suggestions?

 

[davy]

How many rounds do you think it takes before a new barrel is properly seasoned and should start settling down? Have about 15 shots through the above and it's still all over the paper at 50 yards. I mean an 8", six shot group. Here's my drill. Swab with lighter fluid first to remove any remnants of Bore Butter, etc. Dry. 70 gr of 2F then an overwad. .531 PRB using .018" pillow ticking lightly lubed with Bore Butter. 4F in the pan. Swab with light coat of Bore Butter between shots. Loads easily all day long. I should mention that this is a drop in barrel on a TC Renegade stock. Try to be as consistent as possible with all of the above. Suggestions?

I do not know for sure .. but have been told 100-200 shots should do it! :hatsoff:

Davy

 

[blacksmithman64]

Davy's right, about 100-200 rounds. And I would dispense with the ligher fluid. :thumbsup:

 

[Nimrod]

I have a GM drop in 50 for a Hawkens and am using alcohol to clean the barrel b4 shooting then popping a couple caps off to clear everything out. I noticed you said ffff in the pan........8 inch {flinch lock} groups how much in the pipe 85 fff here. you might try a tighter patch maby.And yes at least 100 rounds and a lb of powder. Well just go out and shoot the thing and have fun doing so. :hatsoff:

Nimrod

 

[roundball]

I guess I'm going to be a little outside the party line on this from personal experiences with a lot of modern made mass produced barrels.

Assuming you're using a target that's about the size of a sheet of paper, and assuming you're using a solid bench rest for 50yds, IMO there's no modern made GM barrel that comes off the manufacturing line that shoots that poorly, and will be fixed by "barrel break-in".

I've accumulated a number of new TC barrels and 5 new GM barrels over the years and every one of them has had cloverleaf accuracy right out of the box...there's something else going on to be causing that...my .02 cents
:hatsoff:

 

[retired]

ndbilly,
i put a GM 54 barrel on a TC hawken flinter. It shot very good (a ragged hole about 2 inches in diameter off the bench) after about 100 rounds with a 535 ball, .022 mattress tickin, moose snot, and 70 grs 3f or 80 grs 2f, same POI. BTW the GM recommendation is:
Hunting-535 ball,.015-.018 patch with 80-100 grs 2f.
Target- 542 ball, .015-.018 patch with 80-100 grs 2f.
Dont know where to find .542 balls but mine does shoot better with the 535 rather than a 530 ball.
Maybe you should also check for looseness in the sights, barrel mounting, and tang screws. No not over lube as this can also effect accuracy. Try a few with spit patch, might help.

 

[ndbilly]

Yeah, that's what I think, too - there's something else going on. I took the .54 off and put the .32 on and was getting a nice 3" group off my elbows at the same distance and they were hitting at point of aim. And I don't have anywhere near 100 rds through that little pea shooter. Wonder if I up the load to 80 gr., switch from 2F to 3F, etc.? Wish I had more time to ditz around with it as I'd like to take it hunting next year.

 

[ndbilly]

Alright, amigo! Now we're getting somewhere! Looks like my load was too light and I should try a bigger round ball. Thanks!

 

[roundball]

Alright, amigo! Now we're getting somewhere! Looks like my load was too light and I should try a bigger round ball. Thanks!

No, that's not it...more powder and a slightly bigger ball are not the solution to spraying balls all over a target. I shoot 50/60/70grns Goex 3F in a .45/.50/.54/.58cal flinter at the range every weekend and they're tack drivers.

Modern made mass produced MLs are made to nominal specs and nominal size components usually cloverleaf in them...ie: I use all nominal sizes such as .440/.490/.530/.570/.600 diameter balls and .018" precut/prelubed patches and they're all accurate with any of the powder charges from 50-120grns, from a single ragged hole to 1-1.5" groups at 50yds.

If I was you, I wouldn't change a thing right now or you'll be chasing your tail all over the place.

I'd clear my head, chaulk this up as a weird range trip, get the bore "spotlessly" clean...you might have a deposit of hard fouling that you simply haven't gotten out of the bore yet and use a good bronze bore brush in the cleaning & preparation for the next range trip.

You also might have a loose sight...or might be suffering the slightest ignition delay which can destroy acciracy, etc...look those things over and have another careful, focused range trip but don't start changing up a bunch of things just yet.

My .02 cents

 

One thing I didn't see you mention or anyone else ask is , What does the patch look like after you shoot it ?

 

[FTW]

All of mine were all over the paper until 19 or 20 shots.Then they began to group and only get better with every range session.

 

[Tumblernotch]

I agree. And if he feels that he needs to change anything, only change one thing at a time.

I don't have any experience with drop-in barrels, but I've shot GM barrels in longrifles for years. I never saw the need for a "break-in", but it took a while to get the right load for my eyes and sights. No matter what kind of barrel you use, you have to experiment with charges, patches and balls and it's best to do that one component at a time or you'll never figure out what is going wrong (or right!)

 

[paulvallandigham]

We all dream of quick change barrels, and T/C's drop in barrel ads( and GM too for that matter) makes a guy dream some more. However, life doesn't work out that well for most of us.

I recommend that you check to see how that hook breech on that new barrel is engaging the tang on your rifle. AND, check the bedding under the barrel right below the tang or under the breech. If you can put a trimmed business card down in that bottom flat, and still mount the barrel with ease, putting the barrel key in place without much trouble, you probably have found the source of your " Pattern " size groups. At that range,with those loads, you should be getting very small groups just as Roundball has stated. And, any .32 that can only shoot 3 inch groups off the rest also has problems. Check the bedding under the breech first. If that is the problem, you can fix it with those paper shims, or take the shims out, and glass bed it. Buy the putty kind of bedding compound, as its easier for a beginner to work with and there are fewer chances you can screw it up. You should only have to bed about 3 inches of the cvhannel, and then only worry about the bottom 3 flats. Leave any space you find on the two side flats alone. They are not adversely affecting your groups, unless one side is touching and the other isn't. Obviously, you want to check the dimensions on both barrels. What may be a " drop in " barrel to one company may not be the same idea with another.

 

[Stumpkiller]

How many rounds do you think it takes before a new barrel is properly seasoned and should start settling down? Have about 15 shots through the above and it's still all over the paper at 50 yards. I mean an 8", six shot group. Here's my drill. Swab with lighter fluid first to remove any remnants of Bore Butter, etc. Dry. 70 gr of 2F then an overwad. .531 PRB using .018" pillow ticking lightly lubed with Bore Butter. 4F in the pan. Swab with light coat of Bore Butter between shots. Loads easily all day long. I should mention that this is a drop in barrel on a TC Renegade stock. Try to be as consistent as possible with all of the above. Suggestions?

Well, so far you've fired two and a half six-shot groups so it may be early yet. I like the 200 shot figure to have things settled down enough to begin the sighting process. But that's with fixed sights that don't grow back once filed too much.

You obviously have more than "settling" issues if you're tossing 8" patterns at 50 yards (I assume this is from a solid rest). Possible there are real rough spots in the bore. What to the fired patches look like?

I'd start upping or lowering the powder in 5 grain increments (and shooting five or six shots each group, three groups per powder weight change) to see if that helped. Slower twists like heavier loads with round balls. You didn't mention the twist yours has. I shoot 84gr 3F in my .54 w/1:66".

Use a little more bore butter and don't bother with the lighter fluid between loads. Just use a spit patch between shots when it gets hard to load. You're too early in the game to begin such fussy steps. I usually wipe a new barrel well with a couple patches with acetone to remove any machining and anti-rust oils that the factory left.

 

[flintlockmdj]

"Go slow slowely." Get you a couple of hundred R.B.s, when you have shot them up in your barrel if it is no better contact Green Mountain but by then you should be cloverleafing.

 

[Headhunter]

Some guys make this so hard on themselves. And worry so much about menial things.

For breaking in a barrel, Get yourself a 100 balls, Use a spit Patch, Use 50 grains of whatever black powder you want to get rid of, Shoot all 100 Balls and call her done. Go 200 if you like.

I have seen barrels tighten up grouping by breaking them in as stated above.

Now start working up a load. Keeping it as simple as possible.

I use spitpatches for general shooting. and Natural Lube 1000 for any hunting. Scalding hot water for cleaning and avoid all petro products. This has worked for me for almost 30 years.

I have never seen the need for anything else.

Headhunter

 

[J.D.]

I usually wipe a new barrel well with a couple patches with acetone to remove any machining and anti-rust oils that the factory left.

Yep, that's the very first thing anyone should to a new barrel.

IMHO, the second is scrubbing the bore about 50 or so strokes with a green scrubbie to remove any sharp edges on the lands and possibly on the crown.

Cut about a 1 1/2 inch by however long piece of scrubbie to wrap tightly around the smallest jag you have. The scrubby should fit as tight in the bore as possible. A 40-45 jag should work well enough in a 54. Oil the bore and scrub about 40-50 strokes.

The third throw that yellow stuff away and use a good patch lube. I know many swear by the yellow lubes, but IMHO, it's more trouble to deal with than it's worth.

You will not "season" your bore, especially with a heavy wax lube. IF you want to attempt to "season" your barrel, try a light grease or light oil.

Crisco, mutton tallow, ballistol, or another water soluble oil will work much better, IMHO, that the yellow chapstick lubes.

J.D.

 

[roundball]

"...throw that yellow stuff away and use a good patch lube. I know many swear by the yellow lubes, but IMHO, it's more trouble to deal with than it's worth..."

:grin:
Good Golly Miss Molly...this is just too good to pass up...actually, the "yellow" lube is an outstanding one...the only problems with using it are "process problems" not product problems.

The occasional problem that's heard about is because it's allowed to buildup in the bore and that can/will affect accuracy...must use hot water to melt and rinse it all out after every use or it will build up.

Best analogy I ever heard was this...hold a breakfast plate with egg residue stuck to it under a cold water faucet and nothing happens.
Hold that plate under a steaming hot water faucet and the egg residue just melts and slides right off. That's what you have to do if you use bore butter.

I get back from the range or a hunt, and spend every bit of 5 minutes cleaning a bore with steaming hot soapy water...a couple pump flushes with a patch, some brush strokes, pump flush in clean hot rinse water, dry it, and plaster it heavily with NL1000...have never had the first problem in over 16 years.

PS: If anybody doesn't like their NL1000 and wants to clean out their closet, just send it all to me... :grin:...(postage paid of course!)

:thumbsup:

 

[J.D.]

Best analogy I ever heard was this...hold a breakfast plate with egg residue stuck to it under a cold water faucet and nothing happens.
Hold that plate under a steaming hot water faucet and the egg residue just melts and slides right off. That's what you have to do if you use bore butter.

The grease coating the plate is much closer to crisco or mutton tallow in consistency than the parafin wax in the yellow lubes.

Melt some of the yellow lube, which is little more than chapstick, which is little more than parafin wax in parfin oil, on a plate and try to rinse it off with hot water. Some will melt away, but most won't.

What doesn't wash away will build up over time.

The yellow lubes work well enough in warm weather, but in my experience, not at all in cool/cold weather.

If they work for you, that's fine with me, however, IMHO, there are much better, less expensive lubes available.
J.D.

 

[roundball]

Best analogy I ever heard was this...hold a breakfast plate with egg residue stuck to it under a cold water faucet and nothing happens.
Hold that plate under a steaming hot water faucet and the egg residue just melts and slides right off. That's what you have to do if you use bore butter.

The grease coating the plate is much closer to crisco or mutton tallow in consistency than the parafin wax in the yellow lubes.

Melt some of the yellow lube, which is little more than chapstick, which is little more than parafin wax in parfin oil, on a plate and try to rinse it off with hot water. Some will melt away, but most won't.

What doesn't wash away will build up over time.

The yellow lubes work well enough in warm weather, but in my experience, not at all in cool/cold weather.

If they work for you, that's fine with me, however, IMHO, there are much better, less expensive lubes available.
J.D.

:grin: No sweat, if you don't like it don't use it of course...like I said, steaming hot water right out of the tap with a squirt of dishwashing detergent after every use and there is no buildup what-so-ever, nothing remains in the bore...and it works for a lot of people, not just me.

I just thought it was appropriate to add balance to a statement you made that other people could read and clarify that there's nothing wrong with the product at all...it's a user process problem and wasn't challenging you as such.

And saying now that there are better less expensive lubes is completely different from your first post. :winking:

I use it year round for all hunting right through the fall and winter here in NC...rarely gets colder than the teens during hunting season.
When it's 97* in July and August with matching humidity it's at it's best...shoot 50 shot ranges session every Saturday morning and never have to wipe between shots.

I use a more liquid lube (Hoppes No9 Plus BP) at the range in the cold dry low humidity months of winter to shoot without wiping then. Every deer and turkey I've killed has had it's load pushed out of the barrel by patches or wads lubed with NL1000.

I've bought two used / mint condition TC RB barrels dirt cheap that their owner's had said "were shot out"...was nothing but lack of thorough cleaning allowing BB to build up...dissolved it all out with Shooter Choice Black Powder Cleaning Gel and they've been tack drivers ever since.

I tend not to over analyze things in this grand old sport worrying about parifin this or wax that...NL1000 works perfectly as advertised, keep the bore spotless and there will never be a problem.

:thumbsup: