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New Gun Problem ... Help please

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Gowacky

40 Cal
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
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Hello, I’m new to the forum and happy to be with you.

I just received my new 32 cal Crockett muzzleloader made by Tradition Arms. I have been waiting to get in all the items I need and thought I was finally ready, but when I pulled the trigger, the hammer dropped but the cap didn’t fire. I repeated this 6 times with CCI #11 caps. Then I noticed the caps are showing no sign of being hit so it appears the hammer is stopping a wee bit before making contact with the cap.

If this sounds like the case, would you know how to make that adjustment?

Thanks,

Gowacky
 
The Crockett Rifle should use a #10 Cap. If the #11 is sitting to far down the hammer will not hit it. Try to get some #10 caps and see if that is the problem.
 
I told the customer service rep at Traditions that the 11 cap seemed a little loose and I asked if I should be using a 10. I was assured that an 11 was right but now I’m going to look at that closer as you certainly sound credible and I thank you. I just had to buy in quantities of a thousand and as cabellas was on back order I will be holding almost $300 worth of caps. I suppose that’s a separate problem though.
 
If you can't find #10 nipples, then try a different nipple made for #11 caps. Your rifle is threaded for a M6X1 thread.
 
It would save me so much money to be able to use the #11 caps so I’ll sure look for a #11 nipple with that thread. A big thankyou !
 
Even a loose cap should fire when the hammer drops. Give a close look at how the nose of the hammer sets on the nipple. If the hammer nose is off center it could be rubbing the side of the nipple and/or the cap. All the energy is used up rubbing rather then setting off the cap.
 
I let the hammer drop on 6 different caps and discarded the caps. There did not appear to be any mark on the caps. I don’t believe the hammer rubbed even the side of the caps.
 
That sounds possible to me Phil Coffins, I'd double check the hammer screw is tight as well, this could cause just what your suggesting. Let us know what you found when you get it working. I would suggest Treso after market Cone/nipple, designed for #11 caps. Check out this article from The open Range forum. You'll learn more than you ever wanted to know about Cones, Nipples and Percussion Caps. I did! http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=9094.0 The excellent, high quality pictures are a true treasure. Mako did a great job!
 
Are you trying new caps every time? Sometimes if the cap isn't all the way down on the nipple it takes two tries to fire it. The first hammer hit just pushes the cap down a little. Make sure the cap is all the way seated on the nipple.
 
Make sure the gun is unloaded. Then back out the nipple a couple of turns and put a cap on it and see if it fires. If it does the problem is most likey the stop on the hammer. The hammer has a stop cast on the inside edge that hits the top of the lock so the hammer doesn't fly all the way forward when fired if there is no nipple screwed in or if the lock is out of the gun.

If the cap fires then screw the nipple in a little and try again until you start getting misfires. The amount the nipple is screwed out is the amount you will need to remove on the hammer stop.

And don't throw caps away that didn't fire because they were not struck by the hammer. You can also pinch the caps a little to make them stay on the nipple better. And I have never heard or read that the Crockett takes a #10 cap.
 
Yes, new caps every time. All new CCI and delivered by FedEx today. I did push them down firm. What bothers me is I see no evidence the cap has been struck.
 
Hmmm....I have the gun charged now or I would certainly try backing the nipple out a couple of turns as I’ll bet you’re right and it would fire.

But now I’m guessing it will or should be returned for that modification since it’s new.
 
Hmmm....I have the gun charged now or I would certainly try backing the nipple out a couple of turns as I’ll bet you’re right and it would fire.

But now I’m guessing it will or should be returned for that modification since it’s new.

If I had the gun charged and was going to send it back to Traditions, I think I'd put one of my barely larger than cap diameter rare earth magnets from Harbor Freight on the hammer, and fire the rifle. They are about 1/16th inch thick, and super strong, should stay in place on the hammer. I'd be sure to wear eye protection, and nobody to the side of me when trying this.
 
IF THE #10 CAPS DON'T SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM I WOULD RETURN THE RIFLE TO CABELAS AS THAT IS RATHER BASIC REQUIREMENT OF ANY PERCUSSION RIFLE. IN OVER 40 YEARS HANDLING HUNDREDS OF RIFLES I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF THAT PROBLEM.

DUTCH
I told the customer service rep at Traditions that the 11 cap seemed a little loose and I asked if I should be using a 10. I was assured that an 11 was right but now I’m going to look at that closer as you certainly sound credible and I thank you. I just had to buy in quantities of a thousand and as cabellas was on back order I will be holding almost $300 worth of caps. I suppose that’s a separate problem though.
 
I’ll be told tomorrow perhaps of the choice made by customer service at Traditions. As the barrel has a charge in it and from the remarks I’ve received, I believe the stop that prevents the hammer from crushing the nipple needs to be ground down a small amount allowing the hammer to detonate the cap. Perhaps they will allow me to return only the action.
 
Does the hammer work as it should, on both Half And Full cock??
This sounds to me like the hammer might be falling to half cock only if the caps are not even marked.
As to different caps working/not working, the top of the cap is in the same place in all cases, so they should work, even if a sloppy fit.

Hope you get it sorted soon!
R.
 
Make sure the gun is unloaded. Then back out the nipple a couple of turns and put a cap on it and see if it fires. If it does the problem is most likey the stop on the hammer. The hammer has a stop cast on the inside edge that hits the top of the lock so the hammer doesn't fly all the way forward when fired if there is no nipple screwed in or if the lock is out of the gun.

If the cap fires then screw the nipple in a little and try again until you start getting misfires. The amount the nipple is screwed out is the amount you will need to remove on the hammer stop.

And don't throw caps away that didn't fire because they were not struck by the hammer. You can also pinch the caps a little to make them stay on the nipple better. And I have never heard or read that the Crockett takes a #10 cap.

Good advice!

If the Hammer Stop or ledge on the side of the hammer that hits the top of the lock plate causes the hammer to be too far away from the nipple, one might be tempted to just grind/file that ledge so it will allow the hammer to go down further, but that means you will file/grind through the surface hardening. A huge problem comes in play if one does that and does not know how to correctly re-harden and anneal the hammer after doing that, though. If that ledge is not re'-hardnened/annealed correctly, it is going to wear more and cause wear on the Bridle that can/will crack the Bridle.
Needless to say, I don't advise most people grind/file that ledge on the hammer, as they don't have the means to harden/anneal it correctly afterwards.​

One thing more about the hammer stopping too far away is that it is possible the Bridle stops the tumbler too early and that will also keep the hammer from going far enough forward to set off the cap. (On one Italian Lock, it about drove me nuts before I figured that out!) I finally realized it when I noticed there was more room between the Hammer Stop ledge and the top of the lock plate than normal, when the Hammer was all the way down.

In the 70's and early 80's, I had to heat and bend quite a few Hammers "sideways" on UnCivil War Repro's, because the Hammers were not centered on the nipples side to side. However, after that time, the manufacturers seem to have mostly corrected that problem, but it is still worth checking.

The inside "face" of the Hammer that hits the nipple may also not line up correctly to hit flat on top of the nipple. To correct that the face must be ground or milled so it hits the top of the nipple flat. This is DEFINITELY not something the average person should attempt to fix, either. When we ran what was then called the "Navy Arms Booth" at the NSSA Spring and Fall Nationals, we usually would just replace the hammer when that happened, as that normally fixed the problem and was much cheaper than fixing the bad hammer.

Bottom line is that most of the things I have mentioned here should not be attempted by the average person and instead, the gun should be returned to the manufacturer to fix.
Gus
 
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Seems to me this has happened here before. Sounds like the hammer isn't going down all the way. Look over good and maybe back out the nipple a little to see if that helps.
 
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