New guy looking for some tips

[CodyEtch29]

Good Evening everyone!
I am a first time user of the forum here, as well as brand new in the flintlock rifle game. I have recently purchased a Lyman Great Plains rifle in 50 caliber from a local gun shop. The firearm was used but looks in rather well condition. This GPR has a 32' barrel and the twist rate is 1:60. The guy at the gun store told me he used FFF in his barrel for the main charge and FFFF in his pan as the ignition. After purchasing the rifle I bought a container of Pyrodex FFF (even though it was labeled as preference for pistols I took the man at the gun shops word) and a container of Schuetzen FFFF to use in the pan as my ignition. I also purchased a pack of lubed patches (0.01") and a box of federal .50 caliber balls (.495").
I headed to the range for the second time today after an unfortunate start to my flintlock journey (a story for another time but it involved a broken ramrod and some barrel obstructions) and I could not for the life of me get a suitable group at 30 or 50 yards. So I turned to the place of the masters for some tips on how to get better accuracy out of my new flintlock. Any tips would help including; grains placed in barrel, different powder, different patches, different balls, etc. I am willing to try anything as I very much enjoy the shooting of the rifle already and am setting out for my goal of a whitetail deer here in PA's late flintlock season.
Thank you all in advanced!!

 

[TerryK]

Start by keeping the pyrodex away from your flintlock. The flashpoint is too high for fast ignition, and naturally that can lead to poor accuracy.
Keep the primer in the pan at a minimum. Usually only one press from the pan charger is enough. Too much powder is a burn, you want flash.
I am a fan of lapping the barrel with some fine polishing compound. That will make loading, and cleaning easier. It could also help prevent patch failure.
You can try 0.015 patches.
Clean with a mix of balistrol and water, and final patch of pure balistrol.
But cut black english flints.
If you have time drive up to Dixons near Hamburg, and they will set you up.

I guess the most important issue is the 3F blackpowder.

 

[Grenadier1758]

To start off, the clerk at the LGS wasn't specific or didn't know that Pyrodex, even though marked 3F, is unsuitable for use in a flint lock. At least @CodyEtch29 did get Schuetzen 4F for the pan. The shooting can be salvaged by using 5 to 10 grains of the 4F as a kicker charge for the Pyrodex.

Load development should wait until real black powder in 3F or 2F can be found. @TerryK is correct that the lapping of a new barrel is beneficial to reduce the sharp edges on the lands to prevent the patches from tearing. Speaking of which, prelubed patches are an unknown quantity as long-term storage is known to deteriorate the patch material leading to shredded patches and poor accuracy. Cody would be better off to get unlubricated patches and lubricate them just prior to loading. I believe that thicker patches of 0.015" to 0.020" are a better match to the barrel. I use the 0.017" #40 cotton drill utility cloth from JoAnn's Fabrics. Washed and dried before use. Patch lubricant can be all sorts of mysterious concoctions, but one can start with a mix of 50% dish detergent and water or a bottle of Extra Virgin Olive Oil ($1.25) from the Dollar Store.

The 0.495" balls might be tight to load with the 0.015" patch, so a short starter is useful. A sturdy range rod with a bore guide/protector should be used for most loading and cleaning. The wooden rods are fragile and have broken from the stress of loading and cleaning as you seem to have encountered.

The use of 3F vs 2F powder goes back to guidelines printed in some old manuals. The 3F powder is safe for use in the Great Plains rifle. A load of 65 to 80 grains of powder is adequate for PA deer. Use a volume measure for the powder. Pyrodex and real black powder have similar performance when measured by volume.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Clean with a mix of balistrol and water, and final patch of pure balistrol.

Except for this, I agree with everything else said.
The OP already has a sticky barrel, not wise to make more to slow the PRB down.
Broke his ramrod from not being able to get the stuff seated at the plug.
Use oil products in modern firearms, stick with all natural cleaner and lubes for the flinters.
T/C 1000+ products have served me well for 3 decades.

Dont like fake powders, and never in a flinter. save it for when you get a revolver.

You can buy a fiberglass range rod for $30 or so. Use that at the range, it wont break.
They do not fit under the barrel, so I bought a Nearly Indestructible Ramrod.
Its a piece of all thread with wood wrapped around it. If has a 10/32 bit on one end and a 8/32 on the other. Makes attachments easy.
When I first started I broke my ramrod. The one above has been on the rifle for over a decade now.

With .495 balls, a .010 patch would be about all that well go down the barrel.
Using a .490 ball and a .015 patch should improve accuracy.

How much powder will your barrel burn?
Here is how to calculate the Davenport Formula:

.50 divided by 2 = .25
.25 x .25 = .0625
.0625 times Pi( 3.1416)= 0.19635
.19635 x 11.5 = 2.2580
2.2580 x 28 inches( barrel length)= 63.22 grains of powder.

2.2580 x 32 inches = 72.3 grains is the max your barrel can handle.
Anything more is a waste.
Is this the most accurate load? NO. It is the max amount that will burn, work backwards (less) to find the most accurate load for your barrel.

 

[hanshi]

Yes on the spot-on advice given. I'll try for brevity: ditch the Pyrodex and get some black powder. Go to a .490" ball and .015" patch. Yep, 3F in the bore and 4F in the pan. Of course 3F in the pan is fine, too.

 

[Coolhand]

Except for this, I agree with everything else said.
The OP already has a sticky barrel, not wise to make more to slow the PRB down.
Broke his ramrod from not being able to get the stuff seated at the plug.
Use oil products in modern firearms, stick with all natural cleaner and lubes for the flinters.
T/C 1000+ products have served me well for 3 decades.

Dont like fake powders, and never in a flinter. save it for when you get a revolver.

You can buy a fiberglass range rod for $30 or so. Use that at the range, it wont break.
They do not fit under the barrel, so I bought a Nearly Indestructible Ramrod.
Its a piece of all thread with wood wrapped around it. If has a 10/32 bit on one end and a 8/32 on the other. Makes attachments easy.
When I first started I broke my ramrod. The one above has been on the rifle for over a decade now.

With .495 balls, a .010 patch would be about all that well go down the barrel.
Using a .490 ball and a .015 patch should improve accuracy.

How much powder will your barrel burn?
Here is how to calculate the Davenport Formula:

.50 divided by 2 = .25
.25 x .25 = .0625
.0625 times Pi( 3.1416)= 0.19635
.19635 x 11.5 = 2.2580
2.2580 x 28 inches( barrel length)= 63.22 grains of powder.

2.2580 x 32 inches = 72.3 grains is the max your barrel can handle.
Anything more is a waste.
Is this the most accurate load? NO. It is the max amount that will burn, work backwards (less) to find the most accurate load for your barrel.

Your formula has intrigued me, I have never seen this before.
Question on how to use this formula for other calibers. After you have divided the caliber by two and you got the .25 then multiplied it by .25. Say the caliber was .40 and you divided it by 2 and got .20 would you multiply .20x.20 or .20x.25 still?

 

[William Lincoln]

I think his formula must aim to load what can burn in the barrel involved. Overloading can just blast the fireworks down
range. I have, based upon experience, loaded 60- 85 grains
and experimented as I worked up the most accurate load for
the rifle, according to the distance to target. My deer shots are
average 75 yards or so. My eyes limit me these days and while
the FWC here in Florida allow scopes on ML, I just can't be
comfortable with them--even if scopes were used in the
late 1800's.

 

[Coolhand]

I think the formula is for the amount of powder that will be burned before the projectile exits the muzzle. I thought it was quite interesting, I just wanted to get the numbers correct so that I could use it on other calibers to see what the results would come out to be.

 

[tenngun]

Lyman’s balostic chronograph test didn’t show the Davinport formula working, but does give a good starting range for test

 

[tgfrench]

never use a cleaning jag/patch combo that combined is larger than the bore of your rifle. also never ever never ever use a dry patch on your first cleaning pass in a dirty barrel.

 

[Grenadier1758]

When wiping the bore between shots, use a damp patch to soften the fouling and best to have a slightly undersized jag so the damp patch slides over the fouling, then bunches up to pull the fouling out instead of into the touch hole or chambered breech.

 

[BigAl52]

Ive got a GPR in 54 caliber flint. I would also either drill out the flash hole to 1/16th or get a RMC flashole liner for it like I did mine. RMC Flintlock Touch Hole Liner Replacements – RMC Ox-Yoke Muzzleloader Supplies. I think these really helped mine.

 

[morehops52]

I would add that if the weather is even a bit rainy, snowy or high humidity to switch to 3f in the pan when hunting. 4f will turn into a gloppy mess in the pan in 20 min or less (my experience in W PA). The coarser grain powder is more water resistant than 4f.

 

[Nuthatch]

Just posted a few things I've learned this past year that has gotten me to the point of reliable ignition even in high (90%+) humidity. Figuring flintlocks

Yea, save the Pyrodex for percussion guns. If 4F was the only real black I could find, I would still use it in the main charge & would feel safe doing so. 3F or 2F would certainly be better & safer if I accidentally double-charged it though. My homebrewed powder acts more like 4F -- fast to light & burn though with less overall energy by volume compared with commercial. I mostly use it as a priming powder but if I'm running shot instead of a single projectile, I prefer to use the homemade. A YouTuber ran some experiments in his Kibler SMR with 4F in the main charge and had no issues at all, for whatever that's worth ("well, some guy on the internet said it worked"). Black powder is amazingly forgiving in many respects.

Accuracy-wise, it's a tough one. I'm still working on it. I put mine in a lead sled type of setup to see what was me vs what was the gun. I also swapped out the flint lock for a percussion just to see if, again, it was me vs the gun. It's definitely me. Locked in a sled, the gun shoots about 3" groups at 50 yards pretty easily & no different with the flint vs percussion lock. But off-hand, I'm still better with a longbow than a flintlock. I have many more years of shooting bows than flintlocks, though. Holding that sight picture through all the flash & smoke is tough. For me, it has helped a lot to focus on getting that reliable ignition first. That time between the click of the lock and the recoil of the main charge sending the ball off is plenty of time to push your shot off paper at 25 yards. Even experienced flint shooters will flinch on a hangfire. I took a few evenings to mess around until I could figure ignition stuff out. I loaded up a 10-grain charge in the garage (doors open, fan on), rammed just a wet patch over the powder (no ball, just a patch) & pointed it at a stump for safety (every gun is always fully loaded, right?). It makes less noise than a nail gun. Changed this, tried that... Eventually, I got a combo to work well. Then, I just did the same thing at the range with a full load. Those garage sessions taught me a lot.

 

[BoomStick]

Lots of good advice here, some of it are tips you can use when you get beyond beginner level.
Get the fundamentals sorted: right powder, patch and ball. Either 2F or 3F in real black powder will work, substitutes are trouble. Ball of .490 and .015 patch should get you on paper.
Then loading and shooting. Try to do the same steps the same order and same way -develop a muscle memory.
I'd recommend finding someone to show you and give some in person guidance. It's less than a week to the flintlock opener and you're kinda like cramming for the final exam...
I can help (coaching and I've got extra supplies) but I'm a bit of a drive.

 

[Nuthatch]

Lots of good advice here, some of it are tips you can use when you get beyond beginner level.
Get the fundamentals sorted: right powder, patch and ball. Either 2F or 3F in real black powder will work, substitutes are trouble. Ball of .490 and .015 patch should get you on paper.
Then loading and shooting. Try to do the same steps the same order and same way -develop a muscle memory.
I'd recommend finding someone to show you and give some in person guidance. It's less than a week to the flintlock opener and you're kinda like cramming for the final exam...
I can help (coaching and I've got extra supplies) but I'm a bit of a drive.

I just assumed he was talking about the PA flintlock NEXT season. I hope he isn't thinking about it for this season... @CodyEtch29 , can you clarify? If you're thinking this season, I'd highly advise against it. Patience... It's a process.

 

[Togo]

Good Evening everyone!
I am a first time user of the forum here, as well as brand new in the flintlock rifle game. I have recently purchased a Lyman Great Plains rifle in 50 caliber from a local gun shop. The firearm was used but looks in rather well condition. This GPR has a 32' barrel and the twist rate is 1:60. The guy at the gun store told me he used FFF in his barrel for the main charge and FFFF in his pan as the ignition. After purchasing the rifle I bought a container of Pyrodex FFF (even though it was labeled as preference for pistols I took the man at the gun shops word) and a container of Schuetzen FFFF to use in the pan as my ignition. I also purchased a pack of lubed patches (0.01") and a box of federal .50 caliber balls (.495").
I headed to the range for the second time today after an unfortunate start to my flintlock journey (a story for another time but it involved a broken ramrod and some barrel obstructions) and I could not for the life of me get a suitable group at 30 or 50 yards. So I turned to the place of the masters for some tips on how to get better accuracy out of my new flintlock. Any tips would help including; grains placed in barrel, different powder, different patches, different balls, etc. I am willing to try anything as I very much enjoy the shooting of the rifle already and am setting out for my goal of a whitetail deer here in PA's late flintlock season.
Thank you all in advanced!!

Flintlocks NEED black powder, you will get misfires, delays with the pyrodex, it will work fine in percussion rifles so find you a jug of 3F black powder. If those .495 balls go in too tight with a patch, then try .490's all of my 50 cals love .490's with .015 and some like .018 patches. You can play with lubes but I use simple green 50/50 as my lube. Play with the powder until you find what groups the best.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Lyman’s balostic chronograph test didn’t show the Davinport formula working, but does give a good starting range for test

The only way I would profess this is that Ive ran it though my chrony with several rifles.
Many years ago I even made a video with the two rifles, shooting them after dark and seeing the flame differences.

 

[B P Maniac Shooter]

Give away the pyrodex & buy some real black powder such as Swiss or Schuetzen in 3F..
Otherwise....this is usually what you will experience using pyrodex in flint guns:

 

[Danny Ross]

Just to add a couple of things. One, is to get a Range Rod to use at the range for loading and for cleaning. Use you gun's ram rod if you go hunting. Two, is get a bore guide to use for cleaning and for loading at the range, to protect the muzzle from wear. Three. is get a patch puller so if a patch does come off of the ram rod you can fish it out. Four get a ball puller. We All have dry balled (forgot to put the powder in first) from time to time. I'll tell you, it is a WHOLE lot easier pulling a ball with a Range Rod than your gun's ram rod. DANNY