New kit guns suggestions??

[Mike Lasko]

So I've finally decided to build a longrifle. I have no experience doing this but have enjoyed muzzleloader hunting for years. I see myself doing a lot more of it as I get older (43 years old now). I'd like to build a full stock longrifle with iron hardware and have started to process of looking at kits. I've committed to doing this patiently and seeking out advice as I build. I'm not in a rush and I want the rifle to turn out fairly well. I'm looking for something that is pretty close fitting that will take minor woodworking since I'm a definite novice. I'm planning on taking an entire year to build it. My question is what is available out there? I've seen mostly Kibler, Track of the Wolf, and Jim Chambers kits, but I figured there is probably others that I'm not aware of. Price isn't a huge concern but I'd like to get away with 1300 or less. I'm thinking .50 caliber and the rifle will be used primarily for deer/black bear. Thanks in advance! Forgive me if this in wrong forum, its my first time here....

 

[kje54]

So I've finally decided to build a longrifle. I have no experience doing this but have enjoyed muzzleloader hunting for years. I see myself doing a lot more of it as I get older (43 years old now). I'd like to build a full stock longrifle with iron hardware and have started to process of looking at kits. I've committed to doing this patiently and seeking out advice as I build. I'm not in a rush and I want the rifle to turn out fairly well. I'm looking for something that is pretty close fitting that will take minor woodworking since I'm a definite novice. I'm planning on taking an entire year to build it. My question is what is available out there? I've seen mostly Kibler, Track of the Wolf, and Jim Chambers kits, but I figured there is probably others that I'm not aware of. Price isn't a huge concern but I'd like to get away with 1300 or less. I'm thinking .50 caliber and the rifle will be used primarily for deer/black bear. Thanks in advance! Forgive me if this in wrong forum, its my first time here....

You are definitely in the right place. Kibler will be the easiest with the least amount of woodwork, most woodwork with them is minor wood removal from machined inlets.

 

[Dave Marsh]

Kibler Colonia; in 54 or 58 would be my choice. I have one in 54 and love it.

 

[kje54]

Kibler Colonia; in 54 or 58 would be my choice. I have one in 54 and love it.

Yeah but aren't the fittings brass? He specified iron which means the Southern Mountain Rifle.

 

[kje54]

You are definitely in the right place. Kibler will be the easiest with the least amount of woodwork, most woodwork with them is minor wood removal from machined inlets.

You can also check out Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders.

 

[Dave Marsh]

Yep iron. Missed that.

 

[tenngun]

Sitting fox and pecotonic also places to look.
Virgina rifles today are often done in iron, and sitting fox offers such a kit. French guns too and older early eighteenth late seventeenth century often used more iron. Or consider plaid style as they too often were iron.
Don’t think too much about the time. One to two hundred hours will do most guns. So to say it’s a years project is a bit meaningless
My wife was away at my kids place but my work schedule and our dogs kept me at home. I worked tree twelve hour ***** but in the other four days off easily put in thirty hous on a build. I know I’ve spent whole days working out brass fittings while watching the **** tube and rain, well in to eight or nine hours. And times I only had an hour to work

 

[76 shovelhead]

just finished my first flint lock kit. from trotw. it is a 50 cal goldon age with iron . chambers lock. 42 inch green mtn bbl. rust browned. auqafortis on the stock then 3 coats of oil. shoots 3 inch groups for me at 70 yards. with pa conicals. and 80 grains of 2f. would like to build a issac haynes next.

 

[Capnball]

So I've finally decided to build a longrifle. I have no experience doing this but have enjoyed muzzleloader hunting for years. I see myself doing a lot more of it as I get older (43 years old now). I'd like to build a full stock longrifle with iron hardware and have started to process of looking at kits. I've committed to doing this patiently and seeking out advice as I build. I'm not in a rush and I want the rifle to turn out fairly well. I'm looking for something that is pretty close fitting that will take minor woodworking since I'm a definite novice. I'm planning on taking an entire year to build it. My question is what is available out there? I've seen mostly Kibler, Track of the Wolf, and Jim Chambers kits, but I figured there is probably others that I'm not aware of. Price isn't a huge concern but I'd like to get away with 1300 or less. I'm thinking .50 caliber and the rifle will be used primarily for deer/black bear. Thanks in advance! Forgive me if this in wrong forum, its my first time here....

Kibler! They'll make you up a kit commensurate with your tools and abilities! You tell them what you want to do, what you yourself are capable of and how nice you want it to be and they WILL hook you up. If you don't right, take advice from Kibler on choices, you'll end up with a gun that looks good to amazing and will put the lead right on the bucks ***. It's really hard to go wrong. Second to that? Get a Lyman's Great Plains Hunter kit. Good looking rifle, shoots good and really hard to beat the price point. Go get em Mikey.
Neil

 

[leam]

Mike, the only real issue you're going to run into here is having so many great experts to learn from. It can be a bit overwhelming.

I'm a novice, so take my thoughts with that in mind. I would recommend watching Jim Kibler's building videos. You can see his build process with one of his kits, and be more informed. You can also get a look at the tools and workbench setup you'll need; and a good set of tools will have a cost.

It sounds like you have the main ingredient: a good attitude. Set yourself up to enjoy the process of the build. The more you enjoy the process, the better your build is likely to be.

 

[Capnball]

Mike, the only real issue you're going to run into here is having so many great experts to learn from. It can be a bit overwhelming.

I'm a novice, so take my thoughts with that in mind. I would recommend watching Jim Kibler's building videos. You can see his build process with one of his kits, and be more informed. You can also get a look at the tools and workbench setup you'll need; and a good set of tools will have a cost.

It sounds like you have the main ingredient: a good attitude. Set yourself up to enjoy the process of the build. The more you enjoy the process, the better your build is likely to be.

It might be worth it to watch Jim Kiblers shop videos as well.
Neil

 

[Capnball]

just finished my first flint lock kit. from trotw. it is a 50 cal goldon age with iron . chambers lock. 42 inch green mtn bbl. rust browned. auqafortis on the stock then 3 coats of oil. shoots 3 inch groups for me at 70 yards. with pa conicals. and 80 grains of 2f. would like to build a issac haynes next.

Pretty gun, nice job!

 

[dave_person]

Hi Mike,
Iron hardware on an 18th century style gun such as Kibler's colonial rifle represents were almost never stocked with iron hardware. Iron had to be forged whereas brass was more easily cast allowing multiple copies to be made cheaply. When you see a builder today put cast steel hardware on a rifle that was modeled after original brass castings, he is creating a modern fantasy gun. There are a few long rifles that used iron fowler mounts imported from England but they were very rare. That said, a builder today can do whatever he wants history be damned. The Kibler kits are head and shoulders above every other kit or parts set offering. It is really hard to bugger one up, although I have seen one or two done badly. In contrast, other kits are not as finely detailed and leave a lot of extra wood to be removed or shaped. That can be good for experienced makers because they can modify the gun more to their liking or objectives. However, that also means it is easier for a novice maker to botch the job. They usually leave too much wood on the gun or badly shape the lock and wrist areas, shape the cheek piece badly, and fit parts to the stock poorly. Those pitfalls are avoided with Kibler's kits. After building a Kibler, you also end up with a gun showing beautifully designed and correct architecture and if you are astute, you will learn what a long rifle should look like from that. That education and insight should serve well if you go on to build a more challenging kit or a gun from scratch.

dave

 

[Pete G]

Kibler, hands down.
Re-read Dave's post several times.

 

[Capnball]

As far as iron hardware on a Lyman Great Plains rifle kit. I was thinking more along the lines of something easy, affordable and good looking. I'm not a re-enatctor or a history major. I'm a black powder enthusiast on a budget and that rifle just looks dead sexy to me. It looks like a well made farm implement made for years of dependable use and by all accounts is a rock solid shooter. Kiblers were and are my first choice for a gun (Kit or built) when my funds allow.

 

[billraby]

You have three basic way to go. One of the Kibler kits, one of the other kits, or build from a blank.

One of the Kibler kits will be the easiest way to go and turn out to be a great rifle. It will require the minimum amount of tools. The problem is that it gets finished in a few weekends and most of the work is already done. Have a look at his videos and see if that is the way you want to go.

The other kits or building from a blank is a much more involved project. Building from a blank is actually easier than starting from a pre-carved stock. But it will take longer. Advantage to a pre carved stock is that the basic form of the rifle is already there. Disadvantage is that they usually take a bit of adjustment to get everything to fit right. You are also limited in the parts that you can use. The Measurements of the stock are limited to what they send you. No real adjustments in drop or cast off.

Advantage with building from a blank is that everything is square. That helps more than you would realize. You get to use any parts that you want and put them exactly where they need to go. The extra work in a blank is bulk wood removal. That is already done on a pre carved stock. But on either a blank or a pre carve you still have to do the final fitting. That is the part that matters and takes all the time.

Look up Bill Raby on You Tube. There are few series of videos there that show every step of building rifles from start to finish. Should give you some idea of what you would be getting into.

A Kibler kit is the way to go if you are looking to have a great rifle. Building from scratch is the way to go if the goal is to learn how to build rifles.

 

[SOLANCO]

So I've finally decided to build a longrifle. I have no experience doing this but have enjoyed muzzleloader hunting for years. I see myself doing a lot more of it as I get older (43 years old now). I'd like to build a full stock longrifle with iron hardware and have started to process of looking at kits. I've committed to doing this patiently and seeking out advice as I build. I'm not in a rush and I want the rifle to turn out fairly well. I'm looking for something that is pretty close fitting that will take minor woodworking since I'm a definite novice. I'm planning on taking an entire year to build it. My question is what is available out there? I've seen mostly Kibler, Track of the Wolf, and Jim Chambers kits, but I figured there is probably others that I'm not aware of. Price isn't a huge concern but I'd like to get away with 1300 or less. I'm thinking .50 caliber and the rifle will be used primarily for deer/black bear. Thanks in advance! Forgive me if this in wrong forum, its my first time here....

Check the Emigs at Cabin Creek Muzzleloading.

 

[76 shovelhead]

my track kit needed alot of finish inleting and shaping. and i had never done any of that. two books and you-tube was lots of help. i wernt with that kit to get a left hand gon. kibler has none. also check on delivery times. took two months to get a lock. most fun ive had in the shop without a street rod involved. everyone should try it.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
These threads will show you how to build some part set and kit guns. They show what it takes to do a quality job and turn out something that looks good and functions well.
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...ish-pattern-1760-light-infantry-fusil.116956/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/making-a-british-officers-pistol.123040/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/building-a-chambers-isaac-haines-rifle-kit.116533/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/building-a-chambers-little-fellas-rifle.110688/If you find any of those threads to be intimidating view Bill Raby's videos and look at these threads for inspiration:
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/building-blind.117940/https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/building-blind-rifle-is-finished.126102/
dave

 

[Alexander Efremenko]

Hi Mike,
Iron hardware on an 18th century style gun such as Kibler's colonial rifle represents were almost never stocked with iron hardware. Iron had to be forged whereas brass was more easily cast allowing multiple copies to be made cheaply. When you see a builder today put cast steel hardware on a rifle that was modeled after original brass castings, he is creating a modern fantasy gun. There are a few long rifles that used iron fowler mounts imported from England but they were very rare. That said, a builder today can do whatever he wants history be damned. The Kibler kits are head and shoulders above every other kit or parts set offering. It is really hard to bugger one up, although I have seen one or two done badly. In contrast, other kits are not as finely detailed and leave a lot of extra wood to be removed or shaped. That can be good for experienced makers because they can modify the gun more to their liking or objectives. However, that also means it is easier for a novice maker to botch the job. They usually leave too much wood on the gun or badly shape the lock and wrist areas, shape the cheek piece badly, and fit parts to the stock poorly. Those pitfalls are avoided with Kibler's kits. After building a Kibler, you also end up with a gun showing beautifully designed and correct architecture and if you are astute, you will learn what a long rifle should look like from that. That education and insight should serve well if you go on to build a more challenging kit or a gun from scratch.

dave

Very nicely stated!