New ML Hunting Project for 2014 ???

[roundball]

Marble

You know, that's not a bad idea.
I've already done all the load development / range testing to know its definitely accurate enough out to 25yds, and at 62 grains would be shocked if it wouldn't be fine for a squirrel or rabbit...dirt cheap non-lead projectile for sure.

Just checking the history files...the 9/16" projectile weighs 65grns (not 62grns) and gave ragged holes at 25yds out of a 32" GM .58cal x 1:70" x .012" barrel. Will have to re-run the load again in the current 38" Rice .58cal barrel with .016" round bottom grooves...much thicker patch required, etc.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Have to admit, the marble idea does present some interesting possibilities. You'd probably have set a Guinness record...I shot the heck out of a concrete structure with them many moons ago just to see them turn to glass dust! Never tried turning them on anything with hair, fur or feathers. :wink:

 

[armymedic.2]

I would venture to guess a rib would be no obstacle. But i wouldnt hit a shoulder with it. I do know a subsonic 55 grain projectile gets it done pretty good. But round vs pointed may be an issue. Lots of unknowns. Id be really interested to watch u play this one out

 

[roundball]

Just to be clear, I mentioned a squirrel or rabbit with the non-lead projectile, not going after a deer with them...wouldn't think there was enough weight for good penetration, as you were also probably thinking when you commented on the shoulder.
And to recap a past finding...because these 65grn non-lead projectiles are so much lighter they really have to be driven fast for accuracy to avoid the knuckle-ball effect.
I assume with the good size powder charges I was using they really had some decent velocity and is why they shot like a laser to the 25yd distance but by 30yds the groups start to open up as they began slowing down...I could chronograph them during the summer just to see what they're doing.
It would be a hoot if in a no-lead zone in states like California for example, something like the common marble we used as kids turned out to be a possible small game projectile.

 

[longcruise]

Ya got an itty bitty chain you can yoke the double round balls with?

Or just the chain out of the .62 Squrrelotine.

My grandfather used to replace buckshot in shot shells with split buckshot sinkers. He would tie a ring of heavy fishline in a circle then crimp the sinkers onto it spaced around the circle.

According to him it kept the pattern tighter.

 

[George]

Just to be clear, I mentioned a squirrel or rabbit with the non-lead projectile, not going after a deer with them...

Rabbits and squirrels? HA! Real men hunt bears with marbles!

THE VIRGINIA GAZETTE
September 22, 1774
LONDON, July 13. We hear from Haltwistle, that on Thursday last, a Collection of wild Beasts being in a Barn, a large Russian Bear broke loose, and instantly devoured two of the other Animals of the Collection; then made an Attempt upon one of the Keepers, who narrowly escaped with his Life. Upon this Alarm, the whole Town assembled together around the Barn, and fired several Times at the Beast, but to little Purpose, as they could not readily procure Balls, but at last a young Gentleman shot it dead with a small Marble.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

Spence

 

[BrownBear]

I kinda wonder about more possibilities with non-lead balls, particularly for small game and plinking. You've done marbles and copper, but there are more out there. I probably won't get around to it myself, but prices on smaller quantities of steel balls are compelling at this site. It's one of several I found with a little googling. Whole lotta diameters and possibilities, some at prices comparable to lead ball.

 

[roundball]

Agree...if we want to continue being able to enjoy / being able to afford this hobby, we really need to keep digging into non-lead alternatives.
Pretty sure these non-lead hunting zones won't be going away, they'll just keep expanding into other states.

 

[cynthialee]

use balls that have been salvaged from bearings

 

[BrownBear]

...salvaged from bearings....

I'm sure there must be a better way to dismantle bearings than any I've tried. But even paying myself 10 cents and hour for the work, ordering balls would still be a whole lot cheaper! :grin:

 

[armymedic.2]

I did see that you had said small game, but heck a sligshot and a marble will do that!

Just stirrin the pot. I get what you are saying

 

[Britsmoothy]

An angle grinder and a slitting disc and them balls are yours :hatsoff:

B

 

[roundball]

"...thinking about something new for 2014..."

Sitting here right now, so far the ideas I'd be most interested in working on and field testing would be:

#1) 2xPRB / High shoulder Shot = DRT on deer out of the .40cal Late Lancaster; If that combination is reliable, and I bet it will be, it would really expand the flexibility of the small-ish .40cal without going to a conical.

2) 65grn non-lead PRM (patched round marble) for squirrels out of the .58cal Early Virginia. Accuracy is not the issue at typical 20-25yd squirrel ranges, just the terminal effects...be interesting to see. One benefit would be if an elevated tree shot was taken, there would be greatly reduced risk of long distance damage compared to a heavier lead ball.

3) To be honest, I'm only lukewarm on the prospects of developing a buckshot load and going after a deer with it...especially with a couple possibilities in the hopper that already pique my interest. But the year is young...might still decide and be able to allocate time to some buckshot load development over the summer.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I'm with you on the buckshot idea. What shooting I've done with them over the years makes me think the three-to-a-layer style used in 00 for 12 gauge is the most effective set-up. Unless you're willing to invest in another gun larger than a .62, I'd go with other ideas. Just saying! :thumbsup:

 

[410-er]

Good you don't work where I do.We have barrels of these perfectly round rubber balls (about .22)called "space balls".I have been toying around about trying them out of one of the doubles or fowler just on paper and not game. :hmm:

 

[roundball]

Good you don't work where I do.We have barrels of these perfectly round rubber balls (about .22)called "space balls".I have been toying around about trying them out of one of the doubles or fowler just on paper and not game. :hmm:

Too bad there aren't some larger sizes...just an FYI when I was researching alternatives a few years ago like marbles, wood, metal, and rubber balls, I discovered that LEO training centers use specialized air-guns that are built like a modern handgun, and shoot .43cal firm no-bounce rubber balls...turns out they are outstanding in a .40cal muzzleloader...they compress into the .40cal just perfectly, very accurate.
http://www.amazon.com/Caliber-Blac...85479&sr=8-1&keywords=43+caliber+rubber+balls

 

[DNICK]

Could you tell us a little more about shooting three .490 balls out of a .62 Cal. Such as powder charge , did you test them past 40 yds?

 

[roundball]

Test result / posting I made back in 2003:
------------------------------------------

2003 - .62cal MAGNUM BUCKSHOT LOADS

FYI...as a related piece of information, I ran some tests in my .62cal smoothbore to see how a number of round balls would do by themselves. I tried numbers of Hornady round balls in a paper shot cup, first .440's, then .490's, with 80grns of FFg.

I could never get acceptable size or consistent shaped patterns with the small sized .440's because of the significant offset from each other due to their stagger-stacking in the bore.
Their offset was so great that they were almost side-by-side but not quite, so that when they exited the muzzle they began veering off in various directions due to this stagger stacking.
Patterns were 18-20" wide, inconsistent, never equally distributed within that spread.

However, the larger .490's were outstanding and it was because they had far less stagger-stack, stacking much more closely to a vertical line. The results were that 3 of the .490’s would repeatedly print a 3-4" group at 30yds, and 5-6" groups at 40yds.

And there was plenty of energy...I had the target stapled to the side of a large wooden "cable reel" used by power companies. Each side of the wooden reel was constructed of 2" of hard wood separated by a few feet of air space, and the sets of .490's blew right through all 4 inches of hardwood.

Since the .490dia / 180grn balls are .50cal, there should be no problem using them for deer hunting unless a state specifically does not allow a smoothbore firearm or multiple projectiles to be used for deer hunting.

 

[DNICK]

So I take it you used an over powder card or wad a paper shot cup and a over shot card to hold them in place.

 

[roundball]

Oh sure