New Muzzle Loader Hunter

[peters_ham]

I just started hunting deer with my TC 50 Cal Hawken....hoping for my first deer.

I was a shotgun pheasant hunter - never been out for deer until now.

So wondering - when shooting with ML.

I have some real beginner questions so I appreciate any assistance!

Do you keep a cap on the nipple and the gun at half cock when in a stand or a blind?

The same when stalking? I am somewhat unsure what would make the most sense. Since I dont want the gun going off at the wrong time.

Also at the end of the hunt - since there is a ball in - do you shoot it to clear the chamber? Or can you leave it in overnight until the next day? First day I shot it out- but then in the afternoon I hesitated and thought to ask here.

I am shooting a .490 Hornady with a .10 lubed patch FFG (triple seven)- I had been loading 75 grain but after reading here I think I will up that to 90.

Good hunting!
And thank you.

 

[nchawkeye]

Welcome to the sport!!!

I keep my flinters pan primed and on half cock, just control the muzzle...

I would take the cap off at the end of the hunt, or if pulling up a tree and either shoot the load out, blow out with a CO2 unit or take the cap off and put in your gun case if hunting again in a day or two...I don't leave mine loaded more than a week without putting in a fresh load...

Also, I wouldn't worry about upping your powder charge, what you have is adequate if your gun is accurate...Moving up to 90grs of 777 may burn through patches, killing your accuracy...777 is hotter than Pyrodex or real black powder and some guns don't shoot it well with patched balls...

 

[don hepler]

It's no difference than your shotgun. You might not see the hammer cocked, but inside the action "it is". The half cock (on a traditional gun) is the safety, but like any mechanical devise, it can fail at any time. They have devices that go over the cap, as an added safety, but a branch might catch and dislodge it. I think of a muzzle loader the same as a modern rifle or shotgun. Don't climb over fences, or into a stand, with a loaded gun or a capped rifle. Apply the same safety rules to a capped rifle and you would a modern loaded gun. If you pheasant hunted, then you probably had a round in the chamber, and the safety on. Personally I don't trust the safety on any gun, but do I hunt with a loaded gun, sure. Guns are dangerous, period. Be careful, stay safe, and good luck.

 

[peters_ham]

Welcome to the sport!!!

I keep my flinters pan primed and on half cock, just control the muzzle...

I would take the cap off at the end of the hunt, or if pulling up a tree and either shoot the load out, blow out with a CO2 unit or take the cap off and put in your gun case if hunting again in a day or two...I don't leave mine loaded more than a week without putting in a fresh load...

Also, I wouldn't worry about upping your powder charge, what you have is adequate if your gun is accurate...Moving up to 90grs of 777 may burn through patches, killing your accuracy...777 is hotter than Pyrodex or real black powder and some guns don't shoot it well with patched balls...

Thanks - mine seems to shoot fine with 75grain - so Yea I will keep it there - I had thought perhaps I need a stronger punch to take deer down clean. Although I am still working on sighting the gun in.

And thank you - makes sense - I will keep ball in for a few days and see what happens.

 

[peters_ham]

It's no difference than your shotgun. You might not see the hammer cocked, but inside the action "it is". The half cock (on a traditional gun) is the safety, but like any mechanical devise, it can fail at any time. They have devices that go over the cap, as an added safety, but a branch might catch and dislodge it. I think of a muzzle loader the same as a modern rifle or shotgun. Don't climb over fences, or into a stand, with a loaded gun or a capped rifle. Apply the same safety rules to a capped rifle and you would a modern loaded gun. If you pheasant hunted, then you probably had a round in the chamber, and the safety on. Personally I don't trust the safety on any gun, but do I hunt with a loaded gun, sure. Guns are dangerous, period. Be careful, stay safe, and good luck.

hey! make sense ! I guess I just needed it compared and spelled out. I get it now.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I use a strip of leather on my shotgun and have on other caplocks. I actually do not rely on the half cock but sit the hammer/s on the cap/s or the leather. The leather is tied to the trigger guard and falls away from the nipples when the hammers are cocked.

It also keeps moisture out when the caps are removed and the gun kept loaded!

B.

 

[Roguedog]

75 grains of 777 will get it done just fine!

 

[peters_ham]

Thanks guys - interesting - I like the leather option. I was putting hammer gently on the cap for a while there trying to decide what was the better way.

Yes I will stick with 75Grain - thanks.

 

[Cowboy2]

75grs of Triple Seven (be it 2 or 3f) will get the job done on any whitetail under 100yds (assuming its not some Canadian wheatfield 320lbs giant). If your gun shoots accurately with a higher load, heck, go for it. But if the groups start opening up, 75 will do just fine.

As for keeping it loaded, I keep Triple Seven in my caplocks for as long as needed (well, they usually get shot off in target practice within 6 weeks, but nevertheless...). But even if you fire it off and clean it out, that takes all of 5mins (again, which is why I use Triple Seven in my caplocks) to clean up, especially if you've got an air compressor with a tube cleaner attachment (like maybe $7 at home depot). For what its worth, I left a 1851 Navy loaded with Triple Seven for 14 months. When I shot it, she did just fine.

 

[crockett]

I wouldn't lower the hammer down gently on a cap. A hit to the hammer (drop gun, etc) could fire the cap. On the tree stand- you can load in the stand but I do it on the ground less the cap and then put the cap on in the stand and the hammer on half cock. The notch on the half cock should be notched so that a jar cannot loosen the hammer- the hammer has to be pulled back and (theoretically) if the hammer slips off your thumb the sear will drop back into the half cock. When you fire a gun you depress the trigger long enough t=for the sear to bypass the half cock notch. At day's end- take off the cap before leaving the stand.
On stalking. You might have to shoot pretty fast so a cap on the nipple is needed. The best set up is to find an empty cartridge case or a short metal tube that fits over the cap on the nipple AND the tube is long enough that if you lower the hammer down on the tube- the hammer is off of the cap. You cock the hammer, take off the tube, and are ready to shoot.

 

[dbutch]

Shoot the most accurate powder load.
know your drop out to your limit.
shoot or remove the load at the end of the day...
This will remove one less thing to go sideways..start fresh daily.
There could be a book written about the misfires etc due to leaving loaded.
Britts leather keeper is a good one!
Check your caps for powder before putting on nipple...Once in a couple hundred are missing.
shoot the hottest caps you can to get the 777 ignited.
Have fun..aim small-shoot small.

 

[galamb]

Yes agree with that - 777 is maybe the most difficult type of powder to ignite consistently with a sidehammer rifle.

CCI makes a #11 Magnum primer (others may as well, but I'm familiar with CCI's).

It burns a little longer and more consistently than a regular #11 cap (more like a torch flame than a quick "flash"). Much better suited to getting 777 and Pyrodex to ignite (but still works well with real black).

Obviously you have selected 777 based on advice, reading, some guy at the gun shop (whatever). Some guys love it, others despise it.

It is a (sugar) based powder and it can leave quite a mess in the barrel - some guys have seen/complained of very hard build-up.

If you buy into the "it's less corrosive than real black or others" you will have a rusty barrel in no time.

ANY powder you use in a muzzle loader is corrosive - you have to clean just a diligently no matter what you fire.

Since you have started using it I wouldn't let anyone sway your decision at this point in time - but maybe next spring/summer if you get a chance to try other powders (pyrodex, pioneer, real black etc) maybe give it a shot :grin:

777 really is maybe the poorest choice, from a consistent ignition perspective, on a sidehammer rifle

 

[Cowboy2]

I've used Triple Seven for 5+ years (cap and ball and sidelock), and I have yet to have it fail to ignite a single time, be it CCI, Remington, or Winchester caps. I've used plenty of Pyrodex and BP in my guns, and if Triple Seven is more trouble than cleaning any of the aforementioned, well, you're doing something very, very, wrong. My experience is that it is ridiculously easier to clean. And it doesn't eat your barrel up if you let it sit for a few days (or a week...and if you don't live in the jungle, a month).

 

[galamb]

Here's a blurb right from Hodgdon that produce 777. If 777 were not more difficult to ignite there would be no need for a priming charge of ffff as they suggest.

"To insure proper ignition in flintlock systems, 5 grains of FFFFG priming powder should be placed into the bore prior to loading the main charge of Triple Seven or Pyrodex. Consult the loading data in this brochure to determine the proper charge for the caliber firearm used and the chosen projectile. The main powder charge should be reduced by 5 grains to compensate for the addition of the priming powder."

(ya they are talking flintlock here, but there is no such warning with pyrodex - and if you have to add "black" that's obviously because it's the "easiest" to ignite)

And Hodgdon does not/never has claimed 777 is "not corrosive", they have merely stated that it is "less corrosive" than black or pyrodex. And if it's "ridiculously easy to clean" then why try to find out the hard way what "less corrosive" means in actual terms?

 

[Rat Trapper]

I think your load of 75 grains of Triple Seven will do the job. Myself I like a little more in a 50 cal. I'm running 90 in two TC Hawken rifles that are 50 cal. I like Triple Seven for my hunting rifles. It has performed very well over the years. I clean my rifles as soon as I'm done shooting/hunting regardless if the load was Triple Seven or Goex.

 

[kruzer1]

I used to use triple 7. Practiced with it all summer never had an ignition problem. Got to muzzleloader hunting season (which is December in South Dakota). Was all set up with my percussion enfield musketoon on a deer and a nice brisk -15 degree weather. Guess what it did not ignite.

I tried it a few other times- does not like below freezing weather in my guns... but other experience may differ. I've switched to real black powder since then and never had an ignition problem in cold weather...

So it all depends on your hunting weather I suppose.

 

[Roguedog]

My 50 cal has a 1:48 twist and works best with 70 grains of 3F black. This load will shoot through deer consistently. My rule of thumb is never shoot past the range at which you have actually practiced and feel comfortable. If you have never practiced past 50 yards, don't take a 60 yard shot while hunting, etc. You don't have to stoke one too hot to get good hunting results. But, if your gun likes more powder and is accurate, by all means use more powder then. For me, I am striving for optimum accuracy while maintaining adequate power for hunting. 70 grains does it for me.

Jeff

 

[Cowboy2]

As you stated, the manufacterer warning relates to flintlocks, not caplocks, the latter being the firearm in question. I never said it was as easy to ignite as any other propellant, only that its worked without fail in my caplock firearms.

Nor did I say Triple Seven had no corrosive properties. I said it doesn't eat up your barrel fast, especially in non-jungle environments. As to why I would test it out, I did so with a barrel that was about to be rebored to a significantly larger caliber, and did the testing in stages- a little bit of rust wasn't going to mess it up. Try it for a few days here, a week or two next, etc. Given that I owned and paid for the barrel in question, I figure I can do whatever the hell I want to with it, regardless of however much it might offend the sensibilities of anyone else. As for why I tried it out- well, I wanted to see something for myself rather than rely on what others, mostly anonymous, say on the internet. You read all sorts of stuff by guys who've never used the product warning about the dreaded Triple Seven crud ring, and its a myth. How do I know? Because I've tried it for myself. And, given that one of my rifles required a fouling shot to start acting right, I thought it would be handy knowledge to have on hand should I acquire another rifle that likes the same. Sometimes you hunt on property where firing a gun every morning at 5am is either impractical, or downright frowned upon.

As for its corrosive qualities, a neat test was done on this forum, filled with lots of great pics. I can't find the bookmark right now, but a search ought to bring it up pretty quick. The results were, to say the least, enlightening.

I have personal experience with real bp, Pyro, and Triple Seven, so I speak from experience. Have you given all three an honest shot?

 

[azmntman]

I have shot many elk with 70 grains PRB in both my .54 and my .58 and they went down hard and fast. I shoot 65 grains in my cva .50 and it knocks em (deer) down just as well. I use 777 or pyrodex as well just cuz its easier to obtain. I have shot both in my flinter but have always loaded 10 grains 3fff first, no issues.

Less powder means better accuracy in my days of field testing and other than a large elks shoulder bone the smaller charges of 70 grain have never failed me. My pop shot a bull buffalo with 75 grains 777 out of his .58 hawkins. three leaps and dead, he did hit shoulder too, found the bullet (525 grain hornady) just about to pass through the skin on the other side... still have it in my box somewhere). Good hunting!