New Muzzleloader Shooter Hold Over Question

[French Colonial]

Quick and easy adjustment formula

Sight radius (distance from sight to sight), times distance to move impact, divided by distance to target = sight adjustment (all in inches)

So lets say your distance sight to sight is 20 inches
20 X 8 /1800 = .088889

Plug your actual sight to sight measurement in and head off to the range with a file and digital dial caliper and you will be hitting center in under an hour.

25 yards = 900 inches
50 yards= 1800 inches
100 yards = 3600 inches

 

[Coldfingers]

My concern or questions is around the amount of hold over I having to use. At 50 Yards I am holding about 8” high to hit a target bullseye. It’s shooting good groups but is this hold over normal?

Comment deleted

 

[Buckskinquin]

So file down the existing front sight to bring the group up, correct?

Yes, filing down will raise your group, but I thought you were aiming (hold over) 8” over the bullseye to group in it. If that’s the case, you need a taller front sight. If it’s set in a dovetail, taller front sights are for sale, TOTW, Dixie, etc. If not and you’re not handy, take it too a gunsmith for a soldered on taller front sight, then shoot, file, etc. If your aiming 8” low and want to group in the bull shoot, file, shoot, etc. Bench shoot with sandbags to assure consistent POA.

 

[Harmonica Bob]

For raising the group lower the front sight. There’s been a formula to calculate how much to move the sight. Use it and save a lot of powder and lead!

I sight my rifles in at 50 yds, with a 6 oclock hold on a 4" target. Point of aim at 75 yds.and about 2" low at 100 yds. Make sure that you find the optimum load BEFORE you take a file to your sights!

 

[Grenadier1758]

Yes, filing down will raise your group, but I thought you were aiming (hold over) 8” over the bullseye to group in it. If that’s the case, you need a taller front sight. If it’s set in a dovetail, taller front sights are for sale, TOTW, Dixie, etc. If not and you’re not handy, take it too a gunsmith for a soldered on taller front sight, then shoot, file, etc. If your aiming 8” low and want to group in the bull shoot, file, shoot, etc. Bench shoot with sandbags to assure consistent POA.

I disagree with Buckskinquin's suggestions. That will lower the impact, not raise ii to meet the point of aim.

Since @SB1911 is reporting that the impact of his shot is 8" below his aim point, he needs to raise the impact. That means that he has to lower the height of the front sight near the muzzle or raise the rear sight near the breech. He would have to replace the rear sight or file down the front sight. My suggestion is to file down the front sight.

 

[Shadowalker164]

I have a 47 inch barrel and and my sloppy groups are about 4 inches high using 60 grains on a 50cal rifled 1 in 70 twist at 25 yards. I have not yet shot at 50 or 100 yards. I may have that zeroed in at 75 goal, time will tell.

 

[Buckskinquin]

I disagree with Buckskinquin's suggestions. That will lower the impact, not raise ii to meet the point of aim.

Since @SB1911 is reporting that the impact of his shot is 8" below his aim point, he needs to raise the impact. That means that he has to lower the height of the front sight near the muzzle or raise the rear sight near the breech. He would have to replace the rear sight or file down the front sight. My suggestion is to file down the front sight.

The use of terms here is confusing. If the shooter aims at a 16” circle at 12 o’clock and he hits the center, 8”” low, that’s what I interpret as a “holdover”. Filing the front sight will not lower his shot if that’s what is being said here. Attached are instructions from a Traditions handbook.

 

[deermanok]

The OP says that he is holding about 8 inches high to hit the target at 50 yards.
One can assume, although he didn't say, that when aiming dead center or at a 6 o'clock hold, he's hitting very low, hence the hold over.

 

[Icemanxxxv]

https://dawsonprecision.com/sight-calculator/

 

[woodsnwater]

The use of terms here is confusing. If the shooter aims at a 16” circle at 12 o’clock and he hits the center, 8”” low, that’s what I interpret as a “holdover”. Filing the front sight will not lower his shot if that’s what is being said here. Attached are instructions from a Traditions handbook.

Why would he want to lower his shot? He's already hitting 8" low.

 

[Buckskinquin]

Why would he want to lower his shot? He's already hitting 8" low.

But he’s aiming 8” HIGH! If he aims center bull, he’d be 8” low. If he was aiming at a 6 o’clock hold he would hit 8” below the target. His low hit in the center(which I believe to be his goal) is the result of “Holdover”. To me that means he’s aiming high over the bullseye. If he files the front sight with same hold, he’ll hit higher. If he aims at 6 o’clock or in his words, “Hold under”, he’ll hit 8” low of POA. Picture this, draw a line from the rear sight to the front sight, if you file the front sight the center of your bore will rise with the same sight picture, if you increase the height of your front sight, the center of the bore end up lower.

 

[centershot]

Buckskinner, you're over-thinking this. The OP reports that he is hitting 8" below his aimpoint at 50 yards. He needs to raise the REAR sight, OR, LOWER the FROINT sight to bring POI coincidental with POA. This ain't rocket science........

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

My concern or questions is around the amount of hold over I having to use. At 50 Yards I am holding about 8” high to hit a target bullseye. It’s shooting good groups but is this hold over normal?

I had the same kind of problem with a new Pedersoli Kentucky flinter. I wound up filing down the front sight to about half it's original height. Wouldn't he have to bring the muzzle up (reducing the front sight) to compensate for holding high?

 

[Buckskinquin]

Deleted

 

[flntlokr]

You can easily raise the back sight by attaching a new, higher, blade to the back of the existing sight, then file/grind it down to the height you require. You can attach with solder or epoxy(more temporary because easily removed). If you are welder, you could weld a bit more on to the top of the existing blade, but I have found that adding a higher blade is easy and works ok. Yes, you are best off IMHO with a 50 yd point blank. 25 yd will be almost identical, and you will probably hit a bit low at 100, the amount of drop at 100 is dependant on ball speed. With 70 gr in a .45, it should be very little. If you want to get the height right without doing anything irreversable, you can make a blade out of cardboard, stick it on, and trim away until you have it right.

 

[woodsnwater]

Agreed, but his aim point is 8” high. Not center of target or 6 o’clock. 8” high to hit center of target. Holdover is the key word. Answer me this, if the POA of this shooter is at 6 o’clock, where would he hit and what would he do to hit center.

He would hit 8" below 6 o'clock and he would file down his front sight to raise poi to poa.

 

[Buckskinquin]

He would hit 8" below 6 o'clock and he would file down his front sight to raise poi to poa.

Hope he has a tall front sight.

 

[TreeMan]

I’ve dealt with the opposite in messing with milsurp rifles over the years. They all shoot extremely high with the rear sight bottomed out. The only solution is a taller front sight. The OPs rifle shoots extremely low which requires a lower front sight or a higher rear sight. Easy peasy. Three pages of comments to a simple solution.

Front sights: Raise front sight to lower POI. Lower front sight to raise POI. Rear Sight: raise rear sight to raise POI. Lower rear sight to lower POI.

Windage: Front sight- move front sight in the opposite direction you want to move the POI. Rear Sight-move the sight in the same direction that you want to move your POI.

 

[Bad Karma]

Good grief…

 

[2 shots]

pop corn here, make it a large i think im gonna need it. rear sight in direction you want poi to move , front sight opposite direction