new pedersoli problems!

[rinella]

My buddy just got a brand new Perersoli Pennsylvania rifle in percussion cap. He sighted it in last week and said he had some problems with misfires, but he was able to shoot enough to get it on the paper.

We went to the range yesterday, and he had nothing but problems. he spent more time pulling balls then shooting them! About every second or third shot was a misfire. I watched him load, so I know he poured powder first, then when he shot, only the cap would go off.

He is an experienced muzzleloading shooter, and I know he thoroughly cleaned the rifle before he ever took a shot.

What steps should we take to troubleshoot this? Could this be a problem with the manufacturing of this rifle?

Thank you for the help!

 

[MikeC]

The cap may not be sitting all the way down on the nipple. Either try different caps or lightly sand or file the nipple until your sure the cap is tight but fully seated.

 

[BrownBear]

The cap may not be sitting all the way down on the nipple. Either try different caps or lightly sand or file the nipple until your sure the cap is tight but fully seated.

If Pedersoli is getting their nipples from the same source as Lyman, I'm not surprised by the misfires. Sanding to reduce the diameter slightly is a good short term solution as Mike suggests, but long term I'd simply replace the nipple with a regular one from Buttler Creek or a "hot" version from TC or other sources.

To test if that's your problem try this:

With the gun pointed safely downrange, carefully lower the hammer all the way down onto the cap. Now press firmly down on the hammer to fully seat the cap, then fully cock the cap and try firing. If the nipple needs attention, that should "solve" the misfire problem long enough to let you get a replacement.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Use lipstick, or marking dye on the top of the nipple to test to see if the face of the hammer is striking the nipple squarely. A good hammer/nipple interface produces a circle of grease or dye on the face of the hammer, when you lower the hammer down onto the nipple. If you see less than a complete full circle, use a small dremel tool grinding bit to remove the high spot( where the dye or grease is found on the face). Re test, and remove more metal, until you get that complete circle. Now, with full contact between the face of the hammer and the nipple, the caps should fire every time. ( OH, it just came to me to ask? Can your friend be using #10 caps, rather than #11s? #10 caps are sold to be used on revolvers, and some pistols. They are too small to fit most rifle nipples. )

If the hammer is contacting the nipple completely, check the caps on another gun. If they fire, than change the nipple. Or at least run a wire down the nipple to see if its partially or completely blocked. When you remove the nipple, use a pipe cleaner with alcohol on it to clean the flash channel. Sometimes, guys think they have cleaned the barrel, but don't realize that they have simply pushed crud down into both the small powder chamber, and then into the flash channel. Normally, firing a cap off will NOT remove all that crud from the small flash channel. Some guys don't even realize they have a reduced diameter powder chamber, and have made no provision for owning a .22 or .30 caliber cleaning jag( or brush) to clean that chamber. Since that is where the majority of the powder is going to be held, when you load it, any cleaning fluids left in that chamber will spoil the powder for the next shot.

If you exhaust all these checks, come on back and report your findings and we will work on the next possible causes, and suggest tests, and remedies. Your friend is not the first person to have trouble with his Pedersoli Percussion rifle, and probably won't be the last.

 

[rafterob]

The way I'm reading the post is that the caps go off but the charge does not fire. In which case the nipple is not the problem. On other posts of this nature it is often caused by swabbing too often with a moist patch or in my case using a brush to loosen fouling, which then clogged the breech. Check the shaft of the nipple in the drum after removing the cleanout screw. Make sure there is good clearance. Sometimes nipples are replaced with one that has too long of a shaft for the drum and "bottoms out" in the drum, restricting clearance to the fire chamber.

 

[Tkendrick]

The way I'm reading the post is that the caps go off but the charge does not fire. In which case the nipple is not the problem.

That's the way I read it too. You're right, check the interior length of the nipple.

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

I had this same problem when I cleaned between shots. I use alcohol to clean between shots and that stopped the miss fires. It cleans well and is evaporates fast. Plus it will burn anyway. :thumbsup:

 

[Mulebrain]

If patent breech, double check the cleanliness part. You really need to ensure the nipple, and drum is clear.

You should not have to swab between shots, in order to fire repeatedly.

 

[bucktales]

Does Pedersoli use the same packing "Goop" inside the barrel as Lyman?
If so, that can be an issue if it is not completely removed before firing.

 

[Zonie]

I agree with the post about the 'goop' being a likely suspect.

A new rifle from Pedersoli could have had a lot of rust preventative in its bore and flash channel. Just cleaning the bore wouldn't affect the stuff in the flash channel.

I suggest that the nipple should be removed and a pipe cleaner dipped in alcohol run down thru the hole that connects the nipple with the bore.
This needs to be done several times. Even if this gun has a side drum with a very short hole connecting the nipple with the bore.

While the nipple is out of the gun your buddy should make a note of just how far down below the face of the drum or snail the flame channel hole is. Then compare this with the length of the nipple threads.
Whether it is for 'safety' or what I don't know but some guns have a very long nipple thread which partially or totally blocks off the flash hole when the nipple is screwed in all the way.

If this is seen as the problem grinding some of the threads away to open up a path for the caps flame or just buying a quality nipple with shorter threads can solve the problem.

 

[Keppy]

I agree with all the above and that being said. I had a similar problem when I first started shooting.After checking everything I decided that it must be my cleaning between shots was putting gunk where it was not wanted. So I started firing a cap or two before loading to clear it to see if that helped. And that took care of my problem. I have learned from that and no longer fire caps before loading.I have no problem shooting a number of shots before I have to swob my barrel.
Also lot said about hot shot nipples. I have never had to use one. I find that the standard nipple works just fine if I do my part. I found that my sloppy swabbing or cleaning was the problem not the nipple. :2

 

[MikeChapin]

Mule Brain's answer was probably the closest. The patent breech chamber on a Perdersoli is very small, about .22 or so. It gunks up easily and powder has a habit of bridging over it when it gets gunked up.

Have your friend use a .17 brush with a patch wrapped around it to get down into that area when he cleans. As long as this area gets cleaned out well many of the problems should go away.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Some left-over oil in the drum/channel can spoil your day, also. Only takes a drop to kill the charge and it's near impossible to remove the dead powder without a good flushing or a pipe cleaner.

Before loading I always blow a cap with the muzzle pointed down at leaves or grass to make sure it's blowing well into and out the barrel.

To test a nipple - a small office paperclip wire should pass but not a large paperclip wire.

As Hacksaw said - how you wipe between shots can also pack crud into the chamber. A patch worm scoured against the breech with a wadded patch ahead of it might help to clean out the channel rather than just pack it up tighter. That's another good reason to come up with a method, lube & load that allows you to go 5 or 10 shots between bore wipes.

 

[ETipp]

Some left-over oil in the drum/channel can spoil your day, also. Only takes a drop to kill the charge and it's near impossible to remove the dead powder without a good flushing or a pipe cleaner.

Before loading I always blow a cap with the muzzle pointed down at leaves or grass to make sure it's blowing well into and out the barrel.

To test a nipple - a small office paperclip wire should pass but not a large paperclip wire.

As Hacksaw said - how you wipe between shots can also pack crud into the chamber. A patch worm scoured against the breech with a wadded patch ahead of it might help to clean out the channel rather than just pack it up tighter. That's another good reason to come up with a method, lube & load that allows you to go 5 or 10 shots between bore wipes.

Well now. Here’s some good information about Pedersoli rifle issues. It’s an old thread . I finally found this information by doing a specific google search. It sounds as if there are ways to work around these issues.

 

[SDSmlf]

Well now. Here’s some good information about Pedersoli rifle issues. It’s an old thread . I finally found this information by doing a specific google search. It sounds as if there are ways to work around these issues.

Pretty generic problems and solutions for any muzzleloader with a chambered breech. If one insists on using oil for rust protection in their bore, it has to be removed before loading if one wants problem free ignition. Why not use one of the rust prevention products that leaves a dry film (Barricade or Eezox for example) instead of a powder contaminating dust attracting oil?

 

[waksupi]

Nipples are generic, you are supposed to take them down to fit the caps. When I still shot cap locks, I had three different nipples to suit whatever cap brand I found. They aren't expensive, ya know. I don't know why people drag their feet to do such a simple thing.
When dumping in the charge, bump the ground with the butt lightly a few times to settle the powder down into the breech.

 

[ETipp]

Pretty generic problems and solutions for any muzzleloader with a chambered breech. If one insists on using oil for rust protection in their bore, it has to be removed before loading if one wants problem free ignition. Why not use one of the rust prevention products that leaves a dry film (Barricade or Eezox for example) instead of a powder contaminating dust attracting oil?

I suppose that "might" be part of the problems people have been having with Pedersoli ML's. However, IMO, it is most prevalent with Pedersoli. Out of every muzzleloader I have owned, not once I have ran into this issue. Mind you now, I oil the heck out my muzzlloaders. I've used different oils and now use Ballistol. I do, however, ascertain the entire flash channel is open and clear before I load the first time.

With that said, what we are actually discussing is the issue of misfires after wiping between shots several times. As one poster has stated, after 9 shots the rifle needs to be cleaned. This is indicative of too small of hole in the breech that is the problem child. I do not see in any way where oil would be suspect of this. If oil were the problem, then misfires would have happened from the beginning and not after multiple times of running patches down the bore between shots. I does not happen with any of my other brand of muzzleloaders.

So, how to rectify this? The only thing I can think of is by use of spit patches, which begs another question. How long does one feel comfortable with keeping spit patches down inside a bore before a possible rust issue? How long does one feel comfortable with keeping a wet patch against the powder charge, such as during prolonged hunting trips and/or allowing the ML to sit over night, possibly a couple of days loaded? How long before the spit patches stay moist enough when doing so? Also, how is one going ascertain no rust is down inside the chamber area of a small 32 caliber after using spit patches for a while during extended periods?

 

[ETipp]

Nipples are generic, you are supposed to take them down to fit the caps. When I still shot cap locks, I had three different nipples to suit whatever cap brand I found. They aren't expensive, ya know. I don't know why people drag their feet to do such a simple thing.
When dumping in the charge, bump the ground with the butt lightly a few times to settle the powder down into the breech.

I cannot speak for the folks that have had issues with their Pedersoli's, and neither can anyone else unless they themselves have personally experienced it. The only thing we can do is go off of what they have experienced. Again, I find it interesting that I have never ran into this situation with none of my other muzzleloaders over the years. Several T/C's, CVA, Lyman, and now Traditions. Since the early 80's when I began shooting ML's, I have always tapped the side of the butt stock after pouring in powder. Nipples has never been an issue other than wearing out. I can and have shot CCI (regular and magnum) and Remington caps off and on with the same nipples and never an issue one.

Not bashing on Pedersoli. Simply trying to determine what the real issue is and how to avoid experiencing such IF I decide to drop over $1K on one that I might be kicking myself later for.

 

[borealedc]

Nipples are generic, you are supposed to take them down to fit the caps. When I still shot cap locks, I had three different nipples to suit whatever cap brand I found. They aren't expensive, ya know. I don't know why people drag their feet to do such a simple thing.
When dumping in the charge, bump the ground with the butt lightly a few times to settle the powder down into the breech.

I did not know that regarding fitting the nipples to caps. I've been shooting black powder for about 5 or 6 years. I'll have to look into this more.

 

[SDSmlf]

what we are actually discussing is the issue of misfires after wiping between shots several times.

I find that I can create the same issue with misfires if wiping between shots. I work out loads that I can shoot without having to wipe between shots. Although I am shooting a Pedersoli 32, the fact that I can change the lock from percussion to flint on my gun takes it out of your percussion only discussion, so I don’t have anything to offer that you would be interested in.

I do not see in any way where oil would be suspect of this. If oil were the problem, then misfires would have happened from the beginning and not after multiple times of running patches down the bore between shots.

Mind you now, I oil the heck out my muzzlloaders.

Where does the oil go when the powder from the first load ignites? In my guns it turns to a sticky tar like substance that seems to attract additional residue from subsequent shots, eventually clogging the fire channel. A real PIA to clean out. Then push additional stuff down the bore towards the breech while swabbing between shots and you have a perfect storm with a chambered breech, particularly a chambered breech in a 32 caliber gun.