New Renegade 58 cal-T/C Custom

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

I ordered a new Renegade 58 cal from T/C Custom shop today. Will take 4 to 6 weeks. My question is about the QLA muzzle....is this a good thing or not?
Can I specify to not have it on barrel through the custom shop? My other Renegade is serial 377910 and it does not have it.

Jim in Idaho

 

[Rebel]

If you plan to use it for round balls i would say to skip the QLA. If you plan to use it with conicals, then the QLA would be handy to have.

 

[navaman]

i just ordered a .50 cal carbine and it has the same feature. the way i read and understand it on their web page it's a very good thing. the thing about T/C is if you don't like it they'll make it right. i'd go go ahead and order it with it if i were you. you never know. i should be getting mine before you so i could let you know before yours arrives.

 

[roundball]

I ordered a new Renegade 58 cal from T/C Custom shop today. Will take 4 to 6 weeks. My question is about the QLA muzzle....is this a good thing or not?
Can I specify to not have it on barrel through the custom shop? My other Renegade is serial 377910 and it does not have it.

Jim in Idaho

If you're only going to shoot round balls, and if they'll agree to make a barrel without the QLA, my opinion would be to ditch the QLA...it only purpose is help align conicals with the axis of the bore, and you give up another inch of rifling in the process.

I had a .54cal QLA barrel once and found it to be a PITA to load patched round balls...sold it, never owned one since...always had to be very careful to keep the ball perfectly centered on the patch when trying to ease it into the QLA. If it slips a little to one side, the ball would drop into the QLA without the patch, then you have to upend the rifle and shake the ball out of a barrel that already has a powder charge in it, etc.

If they won't make a non-QLA barrel for you, you might consider just buying the stock assembly, and getting a 1" x 33" x 1:70" .58cal round ball barrel from Green Mountain...I have that barrel in Flint dropped into a Hawken stock and it's outstanding..."sudden death" on deer with a Hornady .570 ball.

My .02 cents

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

I plan on using it for roundball shooting mainly and I have no problem using 1:48 twist for RB shooting whatsoever, as one of the best RB shooting rifles I ever owned was a T/C 50 Hawken.

I want to use it for hunting elk with RB as I have 3 other 54 caliber rifles now and will use conicals in 2 of those.
I just feel that the RB in 58 is a lot more deadly for big game than even the 54 due to foot pounds energy increase in bullet at impact for one. My first BP rifle was a Zouve 58 and I really enjoyed shooting it back in the mid 70's a lot. It was too heavy for hunting though.

What is reason you don't want QLA for RB loading? Like I said....I know nothing about the QLA and am curious to see different remarks regarding it....thanks.
Jim in Idaho

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Yes, please do let me know when yours arrives how you like it....thanks.
Jim in Idaho

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Roundball,
I totally respect your .02 worth let me tell you!!! I can visualize what you are saying about the patch and RB being hard to seat with the QLA system in the new T/C's. I will call them and ask if they will send me one without it, as I plan on shooting RB most all the time in this 58 caliber.

Thanks again Roundball for your expert advice!!

Jim

 

[navaman]

i was sure glad to read what you posted, but igot another question for you. i'm not sure that i'm always going to shoot REAL bullets and would like to have the option of shooting the round balls without the PITA. the rifle i'm getting is a .50 with the short 21" barrel. do i have any other options ? and while i'm pestering you i'd really like your opiniom on lyman rifles. thanks.

 

[roundball]

i was sure glad to read what you posted, but igot another question for you. i'm not sure that i'm always going to shoot REAL bullets and would like to have the option of shooting the round balls without the PITA. the rifle i'm getting is a .50 with the short 21" barrel. do i have any other options ? and while i'm pestering you i'd really like your opiniom on lyman rifles. thanks.

I occasionally shoot TC maxi-hunters in TC's standard 1:48" barrels W/0 the QLA and they're both tack drivers...no problem starting a conical in them, just like there's been no need for conical alignment the preceeding 30 years of TC's standard barrels.

IMO, I think the introduction of the QLA was a marketing ploy to attract attention to their products as they saw the flood of people running away from their product line to other manufacturers who had introduced inlines...remember, TC got into the inline game very late...near the end of the 90's...were losing market share badly during most of the 90's...introduced the QLA in 1995 to try and stem the tide a little.

IMO, the QLA is not worth bothering with...more trouble than benefit...won't have one.

Sorry, but I know nothing abouy Lymans...several others on the Forum do though and will be chiming in...

 

[cavscout]

what is the QLA

 

[roundball]

what is the QLA

"Quick Load Accurizer"....they drill out the lands in the first inch or so of the muzzle so when shooting conicals you can slide a conical down the "smoothbore" (QLA) front part of the bore and it comes to rest on top of the rifling...then you punch the conical into the rifling with a short starter...this smoothbore (QLA) section of the muzzle holds the conical perfectly straight while this is happening.

The concept is similar to the old time "false muzzles" that competition shooters used when shooting long range matches...precise alignment of a conical to the axis of a bore should produce optimal accuracy, etc.

A perfectly round ball (sphere) obviously needs no help with it's alignment...plus, if you like to thumb start a ball, you can't do it with a QLA barrel...it slides down and stops on top of the rifling...and you can no longer reach it with your thumb...have to use a short starter.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Re: Lyman rifles...all I can tell you is I have a 54 Lyman Great Plains Rife 1:60 twist barrel and the 54 Hunter barrel from Lyman to also shoot in same stock and it is 1:32 twist. I really like the gun and both barrels, seems to shoot real well and I like the adjustable trigger with set real well. I also like the deep oiled stock on Lyman rifles a lot and they really look authentic. Only had mine about 14 months. I would have no problem buying another Lyman rifle and strongly considered the Trade Rifle a week or so ago, but went with new T/C Renegade 58 instead this time.
Respectfully,
Jim in Idaho

 

[bpbrs]

I have a TC 50 renegade with the QLA and have had no problems with it shooting RB.

 

[Swampman]

In over 30 years in this hobby, I've never seen a 1 in 48 barrel that would shoot anything well. Try to get a 1 in 66 if you can.

 

[oneeye]

If they won't make a non-QLA barrel for you, you might consider just buying the stock assembly, and getting a 1" x 33" x 1:70" .58cal round ball barrel from Green Mountain...I have that barrel in Flint dropped into a Hawken stock and it's outstanding..."sudden death" on deer with a Hornady .570 ball.

My .02 cents

Any ideas how to get one of these Hawken stock assemblies? I checked the website, but I did not see a listing. I would like to put together a setup like you described with a 1" x 33" x 1:70" .58cal round ball barrel from Green Mountain.

Thanks.

Dan

 

[Hamourkiller]

My solution was to order the TC Custom .58 and a GM .58 Barrel. I will develope a Maxi hunter load with the TC barrel and a round ball load with the GM barrel. If I ever go hunting critters that need more lead than the PRB can provide the TC barrel will be ready.

 

[roundball]

If they won't make a non-QLA barrel for you, you might consider just buying the stock assembly, and getting a 1" x 33" x 1:70" .58cal round ball barrel from Green Mountain...I have that barrel in Flint dropped into a Hawken stock and it's outstanding..."sudden death" on deer with a Hornady .570 ball.

My .02 cents

Any ideas how to get one of these Hawken stock assemblies? I checked the website, but I did not see a listing. I would like to put together a setup like you described with a 1" x 33" x 1:70" .58cal round ball barrel from Green Mountain.

Thanks.

Dan

Dan, what I've done over the years is to pick up used Hawkens on the gun auctions at low prices, sell off the standard barrel, refinish the stock in some cases, and drop a new barrel of my choice on it...I think a complete new stock assembly is pretty expensive from TC...you can call TC's Fox Ridge shop at 800-243-4570, and ask them, but it will by priced at full MSRP.
PS: If you decide to buy new, I'd suggest you go through a supplier...I happen to use Ed Cain, Cain's Outdoor in West VA who is a fair sized TC and GM dealer...avoid paying MSRP to TC that way.


Think through what caliber & size barrel you're going to get...ie: if a GM 1" barrel...then be sure the Hawken you buy for a stock is the large size stock that's used on TC's 1" barrels for their .54/.58cals

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

I bought a used Renegade stock assembly with everything except barrel and ramrod. It appears to be like new with exception of a couple light marks on stock. Paid probably too much for it...$165.00. I am going to put GM barrel on this and that is why I decided to buy another entire gun from T/C Custom in new 58 caliber as I like the 1:48 twist barrel myself and wanted another new T/C anyway.
My old 50 T/C Hawken I bought in 1976 (new.. paid $142.00 at the time) will shoot RB with any of them up to 75 yds it will cloverleaf with solid bench rest everytime....(have to make sure load is same of course each time)...90 grains GoexBP with .018 lubed pillow ticking patch and .490 Hornady RB.

Jim

 

[roundball]

I bought a used Renegade stock assembly with everything except barrel and ramrod. It appears to be like new with exception of a couple light marks on stock. Paid probably too much for it...$165.00. I am going to put GM barrel on this and that is why I decided to buy another entire gun from T/C Custom in new 58 caliber as I like the 1:48 twist barrel myself and wanted another new T/C anyway.
My old 50 T/C Hawken I bought in 1976 (new.. paid $142.00 at the time) will shoot RB with any of them up to 75 yds it will cloverleaf with solid bench rest everytime....(have to make sure load is same of course each time)...90 grains GoexBP with .018 lubed pillow ticking patch and .490 Hornady RB.

Jim

And if you add an Oxyoke wonderwad over the powder charges, your groups will probably tighten up even more.

IMO, the old saying about 1:48" twists not shooting RB's accurately is an old wives tale and totally false.

What that statement really says is that the shooter hasn't learned how to load the rifle properly to ensure good accuracy.

I've personally run side by side tests with TC 1:48" and 1:66" barrels in .45/.50/.54 calibers at 100yds benched at my range...if somebody shuffled the targets together behind my back, I'd have a hard time picking out which target was made by which twist...and they were full power hunting loads, not mild powder puff loads.

EXAMPLE
90grns Goex 3F
Oxyoke wad
.018" TC prelubed pillow ticking
Hornady .530

Standard .54cal x 1:48" barrel shot groups from 1.75" to 2.75" size, iron sights, 60 year old eyes.

1:48" barrels shoot round balls perfectly for me.

 

[Idaho Elk Hunter]

Roundball,
I am going to try the oxyoke wads as you suggested before. I will have to mail order them as I have not seen them around any of the dealers in this area.

Is there any certain type or just oxyoke wads for whatever caliber? What about in my Lyman GPR 54 cal. in 1:60 barrel? Should I also use a wad with a slow twist barrel too?
Thanks,
Jim