New (to me) .56 smoothbore Renegade

[stevekl]

I just purchased a .56 smoothbore percussion Renegade from gunbroker. This is my first ML, assuming the sale goes through!

In the meantime, I got a whole mess of questions:

1) A smoothbore Renegade is an unusual combination, isn't it? I've only ever seen rifled Renegades.

2) Does T/C still service these and provide replacement parts?

3) What are my options for replacement barrels?

4) The stock has a 'scooped out' area, presumably for ones cheek. Is this factory standard or did someone modify it along the way?

5) Finally, is it possible to convert this to flintlock in the future?

Thanks!

 

[longfowler]

1. no. very popular in the notheast for many years - mass, ct & rhode island required smoothbores (shotguns) for all big game hunting. muzzleloaders are now exempt from that rule, so T/C stopped making them. I even have a smootbore hawken from T/C.

2. yes. T/C has an awesome lifetime warranty.

3. lots! any 1" barrel that will fit a Renegade will interchange. Green mountain make many choices.

4. yes, everyone was made like that, if you're refering to the standard cheekpiece.

5. YES! any T/C lock will fit the mortise, then just buy a flintlock barrel and presto! done!

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I don't recall the Renegade having a scooped out area at the comb. Some folks did this because the high comb didn't let them get down low enough to line up the sights. If the hollowed out area isn't to deep you may be able to reprofile the comb and remove the hollow. I've done this on a few T/Cs over the years and the result was a little cast off that made the guns nicer to shoot.

 

[roundball]

In addition to the above, TC themselves make .50/.54/.58cal 1" barrels for the Renegade...call their Fox Ridge store front at the plant, 1-800-243-4570.

.50/.54/.58cal x 1:48" standard barrels

.50/.54cal x 1:66" round ball barrels

 

[Rick Davis]

...

5. YES! any T/C lock will fit the mortise, then just buy a flintlock barrel and presto! done!

Although he may get sticker shock when he sees how much a TC wants for a lock in flint and a flint-vented barrel. Not too far south of buying another complete TC gun, especially used.

I bought my last TC Renegade in .54 for $180, a .50 cal GM barrel was close to $100 including shipping. Better than Green Mountains web price ( Link ).

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

The Renegades I have had didn't have a cheekpiece, or a scooped out area, either. The Hawken did, though. Maybe this was done by a previous owner to lower the comb of the stock. Mine belted me in the cheekbone everytime I shot it. When I built one from a kit, I lowered the comb a bunch, and that took care of it.

Don't be in too big a hurry to junk that smooth barrel. They shoot roundballs just fine.

 

[stevekl]

Oh I didn't want to give the impression that I am eager to junk the smooth barrel. In fact, I am all about SB shooting, and rifles don't interest me at the moment (don't ask me why. I'm weird.)

If I had wanted a rifle, I would have just ordered a Lyman GPR for the same price. I bought this renegade second-hand off of gunbroker because I was having such a hard time finding an affordable SB to start shooting.

But that said, I know that in the future I may be interested in shooting a rifle, and I am glad to know that I can literally drop in a rifled barrel.

Speaking of barrels, it looks like the only other smoothbore barrel available for the Renegade is the 20 gauge. But this seems to be discontinued. Are they easy to find? Are there any other SB renegade barrels other than the .56 and 20 gauge?

 

[WV MZL HUNTER]

I seen a 12 gauge in a muzzleloading shop in WV a while back and now I wished I would have picked it up. :shake: Cains Muzzleloading WV.

 

[roundball]

Oh I didn't want to give the impression that
Speaking of barrels, it looks like the only other smoothbore barrel available for the Renegade is the 20 gauge. But this seems to be discontinued. Are they easy to find? Are there any other SB renegade barrels other than the .56 and 20 gauge?

There was a GM .62cal barrel in the classifieds a couple days ago

 

[MSW]

you might want to contact Green Mountain. last i checked, the 20 guage barrel was going for $223.95 and could be had by calling (603)447-1095.

(this was a while ago, i hope they haven't discontinued them)

 

[roundball]

I now realize I was thinking about Flint barrels...they don't normally make them in Flint, but had made a special run of 48 of them a few years ago...the last of the Flint models just sold a couple weeks ago...may still have caplock models

 

[stevekl]

Would a 28 gauge plastic shotgun wad work in this?

 

[roundball]

Would a 28 gauge plastic shotgun wad work in this?

No...too small/won't seal/melts/didn't exist back in the day...and you may not have had a chance to pause and think about it yet, but would you really want to use a modern plastic shot cup in a muzzleloading firearm you've intentionally selected in order to take a step backward in time.

A lot of the enjoyment comes from accepting the challenge of learning the ways to make a smoothbore ML perform at its best and adjust hunting approaches to match it...otherwise, it kind of begs the question "what's the point" of stepping back in time only to turn right around and start trying to use things to make it modern again...for example, a shot cup alternative is to remember that the settlers had paper at their disposal so they at least could have made paper shot cups back then but plastic wasn't invented yet.

Anyhow, to each their own of course and I'm not trying to rain on your parade...just wondering if you've paused and asked yourself the question of exactly what is it you're trying to accomplish...
:thumbsup:

 

[stevekl]

No, no, you're right. I figured they would be too small, anyway.

Is it reasonable to start shooting 3/4 oz loads because modern 28 gauge shotshells shoot that amount? Should I work up from smaller loads, or maybe even bigger?

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

3/4 and maybe 7/8 ounce loads should be O.K. Problems can and usually do arise when someone tries to make a magnum out of muzzleloading smoothbores. To use bigger loads the oldtimers went to a bigger gun--and they seem to have known what they were doing. It's the modern day "experts" that started this business of stuffing as much powder and shot as they dared into one of these guns. Often the result is long shot strings and blown patterns. Recoil tends to go up noticeably, too.

 

[roundball]

No, no, you're right. I figured they would be too small, anyway.

Is it reasonable to start shooting 3/4 oz loads because modern 28 gauge shotshells shoot that amount? Should I work up from smaller loads, or maybe even bigger?

I've seen referencs to muzzleloader powder & shot ratios that are all over the map, but to me the first order of business is safety...so you have to first look at the barrel.

In my case I use big thick strong GM smooth bore barrels so I use the powder/shot ratio that is often referred to as 1 : 1&1/2.....half again as much shot as powder...ie: for my .62cal Turkey load I use 80grns of powder and 120grns of shot. In an old or even a new muzzleloader shotgun that had very thin walls I'd cut that back to 1 : 1&1/4 max.

As a reference example, if you think about a modern box of shotgun shells that is marked "3 drams equivalent", a dram = 27grns...3 drams = 81grns of 2F.

GM barrels are just big strong steel pipes and I pay no attention to what it's diameter might have meant in the world of modern shotguns...in my GM .54cal(.28ga) I set my max load at 70grns powder and 100grns shot.

In both cases they work perfectly, harvest game cleanly, recoil is a non-issue, etc.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree with RB's assessment. If you are shooting a thick Octagon, GM barrel, you can certainly load the gun heavier. Let the pattern boards tell you what load works in the gun.

If, HOWEVER, the gun is an antique, possibly made of iron rather than steel, and has a thin, round barrel, I would tend to stay with the lower pressure loads. The 28 gauge shotgun shell is a wonderful gauge for both kids( lack of recoil) and older shooters who just don't like lugging around an 8.5 lb. shotgun in the field anymore. The 28 gauge guns tend to be light weights, around 5-6 lbs. and that does make a difference. Better yet, they are famous for throwing good patterns with those 3/4 and 7/8 oz. loads. I know several long time bird hunters who have gotten rid of all their 12 and 20 gauge upland game shotguns and now use only their light 28 gauge guns to hunt birds over dogs. It even does a fine job on doves, which is generally pass shooting. ( you shoot them as they buzz past you). One friend has stopped hunting waterfowl, because of the non-toxic shot regs, and he got rid of even his waterfowl guns, and only hunts quail, and pheasants, now.

So, welcome to the world of the 28 gauge.I think you are going to enjoy it a lot! :thumbsup:

 

[stevekl]

Yeah I've always wanted a 28 gauge but the ammo is more expensive than 12 gauge. Figure that out! So I'm glad my first ML shotgun is 28.

I'm more concerned with good patterns than FPS or energy, so I don't plan on fooling around with 'magnum' loads any time soon, or ever.

 

[stevekl]

So what would a period correct (say around the year 1800) shotgunner use in terms of shooting equipment? What would he use for carrying and measuring powder? What kind of wadding?

I'd like to get all the info I can on what people back then used.

 

[stevekl]

I may have started this thread pre-maturely, because the seller has been ignoring my e-mails all week

I guess I'm just impatient, because he seems to have excellent feedback on gunbroker.

Oh well. He hasn't actually charged my credit card so I guess I haven't lost anything.