New to me Navy Arms .58 Hawken Hunter

[will5a1]

40 years ago I was a teenager with a hankering for muzzleloading rifles, rifles I would read about in the books and magazines of the day but sure couldn't afford on my grass cutting/hay baling/snow shoveling budget. Couple of weeks ago on one of the auction sites I came across this rifle, one of those I wanted way back when, and bought it, as much for the memories, not that I don't need a .58 that can fire "a charge of 180 grains of FFFg with the 610 grain Minie bullet". I'm thinking 100 grains of FFg and a PRB will do fine for me out of the 26" barrel with a 1-60 twist, at least for any Ohio whitetails I get in my sights.



Val Forgett, the founder/President of Navy Arms, took one of these rifles hunting to Africa, as detailed in an article in the 1975 Lyman Black Powder Handbook, a nice vintage reference book well worth the price asked on various online sites. I'll try the sights currently on it, a folding express rear and very narrow nickel blade front, but expect those will get changed out, and the trigger pull needs lightening. As soon as I can round up some .570 balls I'll get it to the range, I thought I had some but all I can find are .562, might work, but I think .570 would be better.





Now if I can just find that GRRW Bridger at a reasonable price, and maybe a GRRW Leman in .58, and a Ithaca/Navy Hawken, and one of Curly's tradeguns, and probably a dozen more that will bring back some fond memories.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Congrats! Is that a 1973 issue of Guns & Ammo Blackpowder? If so, I have the same one. It is not in nearly as good of shape as yours though.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Congrats. Nice catch.
I believe you will find 70-80 gr. real bp to be a just fine Bambi killer.
Take to range and test loads for best group at 50 yards, that will tell you.

 

[BrownBear]

Now if I can just find that GRRW Bridger at a reasonable price, and maybe a GRRW Leman in .58, and a Ithaca/Navy Hawken, and one of Curly's tradeguns, and probably a dozen more that will bring back some fond memories.

Now you're talking! Those GRRW's are worth the search and worth the price. I have one of their Hawkens in 58 cal with a 36" tapered barrel. By far the finest shooter in my rack and sure easy on the eyes.

You're just about right on with the round ball charge on that Hawken Hunter, I bet. I have a 58 cal Investarms with the 28" barrel. Plenty of splat for deer with less than 80-100 grounds, but range is problematic with less powder. The trajectory is downright loopy, even at 80 grains of 2f, and it would be lots, lots worse with less.

At 80 grains mine is pretty close to 10" low at 100 when sighted in at 50. Increase the charge to 100 grains and sight in at 75 yards, and you'll be a little over an inch high at 50 while only about 5" low at 100.

BTW- Those .562's work fine in all of my various 58 cals (5 of them), but you'll have to use patching heavier than ticking. With .570 balls, ticking is pretty much just right.

 

[BrownBear]

Plenty of splat for deer with less than 80-100 grounds, but range is problematic with less powder. The trajectory is downright loopy, even at 80 grains of 2f, and it would be lots, lots worse with less.

Huh....

That's what I get for typing while waiting for coffee to brew. Make that "Plenty of splat for deer with less than 80-100 grains, but range is problematic with less powder."

Sheesh. :redface:

 

[will5a1]

The guy who sold it to me said he had best luck with 100 grs, a .570 ball and a patch only .010 thick, I'll use that as my starting point. While this rifle was listed another .58, a NIB one made by Investarms for Cabella's was also listed, I wanted both but settled on the Navy rifle with the thicker barrel but shorter barrel, 26"X11/8" vs. 28"X15/16". The Investarms .58 would surely be lighter for carrying, but this Navy will be used from my stand and blinds.

Reading the 1975 Lyman handbook they used some really heavy charges back then in this and some other rifles, had to have been bruising to the shoulder.

 

[BrownBear]

While this rifle was listed another .58, a NIB one made by Investarms for Cabella's was also listed, I wanted both but settled on the Navy rifle with the thicker barrel but shorter barrel, 26"X11/8" vs. 28"X15/16". The Investarms .58 would surely be lighter for carrying, but this Navy will be used from my stand and blinds.

Sounds like a good choice for your uses. On the plus side for the weight of the NA, should you decide you want to snort up your loads, that extra steel is a safety margin while the weight will most certainly be a welcome recoil damper.

I went the other way when faced with the choice between the two models, opting for lighter weight even if I was sentenced to more moderate loads. I already had heavier 58's (heaviest is a GRRW Hawken tipping the scales a little north of 12#). I was looking for a much lighter "carry" rifle for use in tight cover where moderate loads were just fine. I've gone up over 100 grains a couple of times at the range, but the thought of that thin barrel and the dovetails gave me a creepy feeling up the back of my neck. "Probably" safe, but not my cup of tea. I have others with lots more steel if I feel I need heavier loads for a job.

Good rifle you have there, ideal for your needs and a good score! :thumbsup:

 

[mooman76]

I have the Cabela's model I bought used many years ago when I was in Alaska. It came with both 58 and 50 barrels and I like it allot. Very good shooter. That will more than likely be my hunting gun after I move somewhere I can hunt.

 

[M. De Land]

I have the exact same gun and bought it used in new condition after reading about it in the same book that you posted.
Mine has a choke in it right at the muzzle and for what ever reason that I can't explain it shoots my home made 610 maxi style bullet like crazy. The one in sixty ROT is not supposed to shoot conicals well but it just goes ahead and does it anyway, go figure.
I was using 150 grains of 2F goex and it was printing them center in two inches at 100 yards.
Awful to shoot from the bench though and I was using a PAST recoil shoulder pad.
Very hard on the sternum and I was a lot younger then.
I have never tried it with a patched ball since the maxi shot so well and I was going to use it for moose and Brown bear.
Mine came with a stainless steel loading rod with a sculpted brass tip hard soldered to it.
For a muzzle loading hunting rifle, especially in the alders, it is hard to beat.
Oh, the chronograph said that 610 grain maxi was going 1400fps, which would explain the horrendous recoil it generates.
I also did a trigger job on it and it is quite nice now.
Also had to make a new main spring for it after the factory one broke.
Mine came with musket nipple made of beryllium copper which I'm told makes them all but indestructible from erosion.

 

[M. De Land]

I had one of Navy Arms Buffalo hunters for while also but it had some pits in the bore and was not nearly as accurate as the Hawken Hunter so I let it go down the road.
The Buffalo hunter is nothing but a cut down Zoave. Barrel length is 26" same a the Hawken Hunter.

 

[will5a1]

150 grs and a 610 gr bullet, that hurts my shoulder just to think about but I bet it does the job and punches right thru whatever you are shooting.

Mine has a ramrod with a tulip shaped head, the underrib is brass, and the original rear sight has been replaced as I indicated in an earlier post with a folding express sight, I'll try it but think I put in a conventional buckhorn rear and thicker front sight.

I read somewhere that these are Pedersoli locks, have no idea if that is correct. It looks like Navy Arms used the same lock on their .50 "Hawken" and in the 1975 handbook they indicate a max. load of 150 grs or FFFg behind a 500 gr bullet for the .50 - that must be a thumper also.

Hope I can find the time to shoot this thing soon, I have the balls on order. I do have some of the thicker skirted minies on hand, I might try a few just to see how they shoot.

 

[nkbj]

That's a fine lookin' rivet aint it!

 

[M. De Land]

More like a great big wad cutter with a point on it! :rotf: Fact is though that it does shoot in this gun.

 

[jw johnson]

I have a GRRW 58 Lehman. it is in great condition and is VERY accurate. It is one of the rifles I will never sell. I love shooting it. 75 gr of ffg behind a 570 rb with ticking, lubed with ballistol and its a bulls eye hitter. Bump it up to 95 gn and its my elk gun. You will love the 58.

 

[F.G. Ford]

With the heavier calibers I find a patch/wad over the powder really helps in good groups.
It helps the patch around the ball from burning through.
Just my 2 cents, for what that is worth.
Fred

 

[Hunter John]

Old Ford - I hear you loud 'n clear on your suggestion about using a wad or 2 in the higher loads. My standing rule of thumb if using anything over 75 grs FF (regardless of cal) is to use 2 felt wads or 20 grs of Indian Head cornmeal over the powder charge.

It's not like I blow a patch everytime I use 100 gr FF in my 58 or 90 gr FF in my 54, but every so often the pillow/mattress tick patch gets blown and accuracy goes out the window. I can't explain why the patches don't hold up every shot or get blown every shot with the heavier loads, but one thing is for sure: adding the 2 felts wads or 20 gr cornmeal completely eliminates the chance.

Everytime I have my 58 on the range and the other fellas are discharging their various high power rifles, there's a noticeable pause after I touch off a 100 gr PRB load. :wink: When they see the 2 inch group of hunking holes at 75 yards they're even more impressed.

You'll love that 58.