New to patched ball - what are these patches telling me ?

[Grenadier1758]

@Sudsy, I prefer the choices at JoAnn's Fabrics to the selection at Hobby Lobby or Walmart. I use the #40 cotton drill from JoAnn's and have found a great 100% canvas from JoAnn's.

Your patches are telling you that the material is too thin, the crown is too sharp and the lands have burrs. You will be well served by smoothing out the crown, taking some of the sharp edges off the lands and getting a thicker patch.

 

[TomV]

New old stock never fired .45 Armi Sport Kentuckian

.430 ball. Cotton patch compressed at .010 wit hthe micrometer, 45 gr GOEX FF
Strip patch, ball pressed down with the short part of the starter ball, then cut off with a patch knife

Shot #9, swabbed the barrel once up and down with a wet patch and tried a .15 patch lubed with bore butter, went about halfway down and stuck tight. Had to bring the gun home and hammer the ball down with a leather mallet.
Shot it out, was actually one of the more accurate shots

Bore butter builds up in the barrel, turns to a black sludge like asphalt. Stop using it partly explains that deteriorating patch sequence as it get stuck in the barrel. Use about anything else moose milk, mink oil, crisco...never bore butter.

 

[gerryherd]

So much good advice so far, Id say it’s time to take a deep breath and start over. (1) Give the bore a good scrubbing with JB bore paste and get rid of any residual bore butter, & maybe tone done any burrs or sharp rifling. (2) next trip to range take at least a couple of thicknesses of cotton pillow ticking or linen (Joann’s will sell you a quarter yd) that your calipers can squeeze down to around .012-.015. Use spit or water for lube, you can fine tune lube later and spit worked fine for ol’Davy and Daniel. (3)Try powder charges from 45gr up to 60 or 70. If you’re still getting blown patches, try loading powder, then 30gr by volume of cornmeal , then the patched rb. There should’t be any scorching but any compromise to patch integrity in form of cutting or wear that would let hot gas eat the patch should be visible.

good luck With it.

 

[Sudsy]

Great stuff guys, thanks

Picked up some pillow ticking that measures at .03 and some linen that measures at .02
Both have been cut into strips, pairs of cotton and linen have been soaked and let dry with Ballistol and water at 5:1, 6:1, 7:1 and 8:1

Heading to the shop to make a crown polishing tool as shown in those earlier posts, then will run the scotch brit until my arm cramps up, looking forward to it

Will shoot a few sets tomorrow and report back

And the Bore Butter has been retire back to lubing the MaxiBalls I shoot from my .50

 

[Okie Hog]

Biggest problem is the loose ball. The rifle is a .45 caliber. It should use a .440 or .445 ball.

 

[user 36911]

You don't need a tool to smooth the crown. Just use your thumb. I've done t that way for decades. It will do it better than a tool You want to round the edge of the crown. Not polish it's surface. Only your thumb can do that.

Look at Daryl's post.

https://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=62849.msg631626#msg631626

 

[Sudsy]

Actually the tool worked beautifully.
Loaded the lip with red rouge and used the drill at a medium speed

 

[user 36911]

I can't see how it can round the edge?

 

[Sudsy]

The wood is softer than the metal and quickly wears a bit creating a slightly rounded edge.
I turned it out of a medium hardness wood.

 

[Phil Coffins]

You talked of cleaning earlier and that is very important. You must use WATER or you will have problems soon. No amount of any oil will save your black powder fire arm. Lots of water a few patches then anything you like once the gun is clean. The other fellows have given fine advice on patches.

 

[Dwight Rutherford]

I can't see how it can round the edge?
[/QUOTE]
MtnMan,
While shaping the wood on the lathe it is easy to create a slight radius to round the edge.

 

[renegadehunter]

Biggest problem is the loose ball. The rifle is a .45 caliber. It should use a .440 or .445 ball.

This is a big part of why the recovered patches look the way they do.

You're using a .430 ball, .020 under bore size, with only a .010 patch. This combo isn't hardly scrapping any of the fouling off the bore when you load again. After 8 shots the fouling had built up so much that going to a .015" patch was enough to cause a struggle to get it to seat.
After also polishing the crown and bore, I think you'll have a much better experience the next time at the range if you get some .440" RB's and try those .015" patches you have with them.

 

[deermanok]

Your first patch doesn't look all that bad but all the other ones look like they were char broiled. Maybe they weren't 100% cotton?
My own 45 caliber rifle and pistol both shoot very well with a .440 ball and a .010 thick patch.
I use the Oxyoke brand precut, dry 100% cotton.
I generally just spit lube them at the range. For hunting I use Crisco for lube.

 

[Sudsy]

Picked up some pillow ticking that measures at .03 and some linen that measures at .02
Both have been cut into strips, pairs of cotton and linen have been soaked and let dry with Ballistol and water at 5:1, 6:1, 7:1 and 8:1

Just got back and it was even worse -
Still using the .430 balls (all I have) Used the 5:1 ballistol and water patches, tried both linen the and cotton. Swabbed with moose milk moistened patch after 7 shots when it started to get difficult to seat the ball.
Could hardly even find bits of patch material to examine.

 

[deermanok]

What are you using for powder?

 

[deermanok]

There's a YouTube video by Mike Beliveau on how to polish a rough bore.
Maybe worth watching. May or may not help you solve the problem.

 

[PathfinderNC]

I would try denim, from your old jeans. It's thick enough to help with the .430's and it's %100 cotton. And free.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Cotton, soaked and well wrung out with melted Bore Butter

Way too much lube IMO.

 

[user 36911]

Way too much lube IMO.

That shouldn't do it. I've used 100% Ballistol for patch lube and the patches were fine. He has other problems.

 

[Sudsy]

Picked up some pillow ticking that measures at .03 and some linen that measures at .02
Both have been cut into strips, pairs of cotton and linen have been soaked and let dry with Ballistol and water at 5:1, 6:1, 7:1 and 8:1

Just got back and it was even worse -
Still using the .430 balls (all I have) Used the 5:1 ballistol and water patches, tried both linen the and cotton. Swabbed with moose milk moistened patch after 7 shots when it started to get difficult to seat the ball.
Could hardly even find bits of patch material to examine.

Way too much lube IMO.

That shouldn't do it. I've used 100% Ballistol for patch lube and the patches were fine. He has other problems.

I didn't use Bore Butter this round, I used 5:1 Ballistol and thicker patches
It was even worse than with the thin patch and bore butter - patches completely disintegrated