Newbie but please still read.

[Twisted_1in66]

**SNIP**.I need a wide open field just to swing it around (42" barrel). As it is with rifles, I've found contentment. Plus I have a beautiful rifle to pass down to my (someday) son.

Preacher :thumbsup:

Hey Preacher,

You know that long barrel not only gives you a better sighting plane for more accurate shots with iron sights, it also makes it easy to steady it by resting it on a branch or log when shooting.

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Twisted_1in66

 

[Wildpony]

Thanks for all of the input fellas.

I have another question.

The faster twist rifles ie 1-48...they say they are good for both connacles and PRB's.

What kind of connicals are they referring to? Are they referring to the modern bullets like Belt Mountain or are they referring to the MINI BAll styles?

I want to be casting my own projectiles for this and dont want to be dependent of store bought copper jacketed bullets.

So what kinds of connicals are these rifles suited to and please share your experience with connicals and if you can pictures exemplary of the accuracy you were able to attain with them.

I think the Pedersoli that my friend is offering me has a 1-65 twist.

If I can't attain the same kind of accuracy with miniballs in the faster twist rifles as I can with the PRB and slower twist rifle without having to use modern saboted bullets, I would rather just stick with the PRB.

Moral of the story is that I am open to bullet types so long as Iam sticking to all lead projectiles.


I sure hope Im not letting my ignorance hang out here. :grin: :grin:

 

[AZ-Robert]

So what kinds of connicals are these rifles suited to and please share your experience with connicals and if you can pictures exemplary of the accuracy you were able to attain with them.

I sure hope Im not letting my ignorance hang out here. :grin: :grin:

You're among friends, so it don't matter!

Take a look at this:
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/tableList.aspx?catID=2&subID=25&styleID=65[/url]

and this:
[url] http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partList.aspx?catID=18&subID=126&styleID=972[/url]

 

[Wildpony]

You're among friends, so it don't matter!

Thanks for bieng so cordial to a newcomer. Other forums tend to have members that are much more snooty and act as though they are put out by a less experienced shooter asking them questions, which is exactly what I think forums, for a large part, were actually created for

Hats off to you Gentlemen. It's possible that my experience with muzzle loader shooters may aid in fueling my enjoyment of the sport just as much as will the actual shooting part.

 

[jim gray]

Wildpony,

I have never regretted starting out with a flintlock, but I learned at the age of 10 or so, and my dad helped to shorten the learning curve considerably. I think the flintlock would be a great choice if you have a knowledgeable instructor or are very patient.

 

[Wildpony]

Wildpony,

I have never regretted starting out with a flintlock, but I learned at the age of 10 or so, and my dad helped to shorten the learning curve considerably. I think the flintlock would be a great choice if you have a knowledgeable instructor or are very patient.

Patient yes, Instructor no.

Cheers.

 

[jim gray]

Well, ya got a lot of great instructors right here. It won't quite be the same as having someone show you what to do and then watch while you do it yourself, but that's where the patience comes in to play.

One more thing, I think that you may want to take a look at the Lyman Trade Rifle as well. It's a 1:48 twist is available in flint or percussion and comes in .50 or .54 caliber. It is a well made gun and, in my opinion, may be one of the best buys there is in a ML. The traditions Hawken seems like a good entry level gun, but I have no experience with that one at all.

Good Luck.

 

[Wildpony]

So just to make sure that I get it all straight, why would a 1 in 48 twist be benificial?
Would it allow me to accurately shoot mini or maxi ball type bullets?
Or would it require me to use modenr jacketed bullets?
Would it sacrifice too much with the round ball?

Is it one of those jack of all trades master of none kind of deals? Or does it have a distinct set of advantages?

Thanks so much for all of your patience and input.

 

[AZ-Robert]

No jackets needed! Even if you go with a conical, they are just plain lead, or lead inside a sabot. But no copper jackets or any of that mess.

The 1:48 in that caliber range (50 or 54) is pretty much the compromise twist. A rate of 1:66 would be better for patched round ball, and a rate of 1:32 or so (opinions vary) would be better for conical. So 1:48 is the mid-ground... works good enough for either projectile. And that is its advantage.

The best rate of twist varies by caliber, too. My .40 is twisted 1:48 which is just right for patched round ball in that caliber.

If you think you are going to shoot only round ball, go for the slower twist. If you want to shoot both, 1:48 is a good choice as it will let you shoot those maxi and minnie conicals. Or... you could get a gun that will let you swap barrels.

 

[Wildpony]

Cool well that gives me a sort of a reference point to look at.

I think I will probably go with a .54 cal. in the percussion tradition (because Im a newb)

I will probably someday go with a flinter when I am well off enough to have one custom built from top quality components in the full stock pattern.

I just cant figure out whether Id rather shoot strictly roundballs or if I should go with something that can do both. All the info you guys have provided is very helpfull and will factor in to my decision when I get back to the U.S. in the summer.

Much Obliged Fellas.

 

[Stony]

Just for fun, it has been mentioned here in the forum that the original Hawkens were rifled with a 1 in 48 twist. Since you only have us :rotf: to help you with your shooting, I think you made a good choice in your caliber and lock. For what you want, I think a T/C Renegade would be your best choice. It's a caplock and .54 caliber. You can use the sights on it or replace them with something more traditional (ie fixed). It's also a "plain jane" type of firearm. If you move on to a flinter later, you can sell it (to someone who is getting started as well) without too much regret. You can also find them on the internet at reasonable prices. While you learn about the wonders of Black Powder, you can read some different books on the matter, come here and read the bulls**t, I mean words of wisdom and check out places like Track of the Wolf (which has almost all the parts you would ever want and semi-custom guns available without the looooonnnnnngggg wait). Just remember that scattered in these "pearls of wisdom" are pieces of poop. Not everything is going to work for you like it does for someone else. As long as it doesn't cost you your home or hurt someone, it's always worth a try and then at least you will have found something you can past down later, good or bad. Good luck and enjoy.

 

[jim gray]

Wildpony,

Oops, I was just trying to describe the gun to you, not really present any one feature as being beneficial or detrimental.

There are those, myself included, who get pretty decent accuracy from a 1:48 twist with PRB's. I have the aforementioned Trade Rifle (.50 cal. flintlock) and a T/C Renegade (.58 cal. flintlock); both with a 1:48 twist and both are plenty accurate for deer hunting at longer ranges than I would shoot.

If you are interested in a Renegade caplock, I got mine from Fox Ridge Outfitters through a local dealer for about $90 less than Fox Ridge Outfitters sells it online. That should put the cost of the same gun in a caplock at just over $300, that's a great deal considering the quality and the customer service policy of T/C. BTW if you really have your heart set on it, you can order the gun with a roundball twist.

 

[454roundball]

New to this forum too, and have read enough posts to be able to say that the folks here are extremely knowledgable and always helpful. Good choice, though in my own case, my TC Hawken went from pitched baseball accurate with the 1 in 48 twist using round balls to a fine hunting and target arm with the 1 in 66 twist. It is a .50, and a fine deer rifle

 

[jim gray]

454 & Wildpony,

Welcome to the forum. Better late than never right WP? Sorry :redface:

 

[Wildpony]

454 & Wildpony,

Welcome to the forum. Better late than never right WP? Sorry :redface:

No problem. Again thanks for your cordiality and advice.

Im thinking I will start out with a PRB deticted rifle on my first one. Probably .54 caliber and in the caplock tradition. But who knows. I have about 5 months to sleep on it.

I think I will try to acquire the rifle made by pedersoli that belongs to my old blacksmithing instructor just to have it for its sentimental value. If not I will definately be either looking at TC or Lyman for my first muzzle loader.

 

[riarcher]

I just cant figure out whether Id rather shoot strictly roundballs or if I should go with something that can do both.

Conicals are nice if you're going for bear, moose, elk, rino, hippo, etc. or want to punch holes in critters at longer ranges requiring muzzle energy in the upper "punch" zone. About any .50/.54 that I know of should drop a deer easilly out to 100+ yds.
Anouther thing, Them conicals usually require a decent load to make them expand to seal the bore/land for accuacy. The RB is pre-sealed with the patch and doesn't need to expand. This would make longer range sessions more "do-able" with lighter target loads. RB's are more ecconomical on your lead and powder supply. On a nice warm summer's day at the range you could really appreciate them lighter loads on your shoulder in a "T" shirt.
Remember to, this is just anouther opinion of an old man that can't see past 100 yds.
Anouther thing, on a really slow hunt you could always play "marbles" with your balls,,,, can't do that too well with a conical :grin:

 

[Twisted_1in66]

**SNIP**

Anouther thing, on a really slow hunt you could always play "marbles" with your balls,,,, can't do that too well with a conical :grin:

Hey! How come my marbles always roll to the left??? Oh, I see, someone smashed 'em on one end...:rotf: :rotf:

That patched round ball (PRB) is great in a slow twist barrel and can usually be made to be accurate in the 1:48" twist. The PRB's are also a whole lot less expensive to shoot, even if you're casting your own bullets. The conicals don't work well at all in a slow twist. They need a faster twist to stabilize and a 1:66 won't do it. There are some bullets called ball-ets that are a bit like a slightly stretched round ball that some on the forum have had success with in a slow twist barrel. Personally, I wonder why bother. Out to about 100-125 yds, a .50 caliber PRB will kill anything you shoot at if you do your part with reasonable shot placement. That's about as far away as most people can see game with iron sights anyhow.

Part of the allure in using a flintlock and PRB's for me, is the fact that that's all that our ancestors had 200 years ago. There weren't any conicals that far back and they managed to settle at least the eastern part of the US just fine without them. As you might have gathered, I'm a slow twist PRB guy. I also LOVE the flintlock. Once I got my flinter...I never looked back.

Oh yeah, WELCOME to our neighborhood.

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Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[Blivetmaker]

The 1:48 is rather quick for roundballs but if you have one of these they can surprise you. Roundballs have a small bearing surface and easily strip the rifling if torqued too hard. that's why cranking up a ball with 1:48 is more challenging than say 1:66. Assuming an undamaged bore; you can, with a good tight-fitting patch/ball combo get really top-notch accuracy with a fast twist barrel. I have a Renegade that I built from a kit in the 80's. Using a rough denim patch that is lubed through to saturation of the fiber and shooting a .490 ball I can achieve 1.5'' groups at 50m. It isn't a load that you can thumb-start. I use a small wooden mallet. Up to 90 grains of Swiss No.3 gives me no fliers.
It took me a while to figure this one out so if it helps anyone, so much the better.

 

[G. W. Gill]

Advice. A used .58 Rem Zoave. Learn to shoot it. Have a lot of fun. Hit everything right where you wan't ( patched roundball). Go with minie if you wan't, you will have a choice. Black powder shooting is a skill and this is the best tool to learn it. I remember my Zoli from when I was 16 and wish I could have it back. :yakyak:

 

[454roundball]

Thank you. Appreciate your response. I am building my second flinter, a ToTW Bedford County style long rifle, .50 caliber Green Mountain barrel, which is why I have been lurking in this forum. :grin: