Newbie needs pattern recommendations

[tshrcav8r]

I was wanting to start attending some of the local Rendezvous. The local group is concerned with Fur Trade Era of the early 1800s. I am fairly low buget so I would like to make as much as I can. I have a copy of BoB Volume VII on the way. I can't afford much in the way of reference material, I can buy books or spend the money on outfitting myself, so I am trying to walk that fine line. I am looking for appropriate patterns for a shirt, fall front pants and capote. I am a little bewildered by the number of patterns out there and the differences between them. I have looked at the patterns from EV and Kannik. What are the better/perferred patterns, in terms of authenticity and ease of construction?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated,

Tim

 

[crockett]

Some of the larger retailers of cloth have 50% off sales from time to time. For a low budget I'd suggest:

1. Red 100% cotton fabric or red cotton flannel or blue and white checkered 100% cotton, sewn as a box shirt. If you need help on the pattern- ask. Should cost about $10.00.
2. Narrow fall pants. "Pantaloons" were fairly tight fitting on the leg and baggy in the seat. A pair of blue jeans isn't too bad a pattern. There is Russian Canvas and various "sattinet" types that are mostly home spun. For a good home spun look you might be better with a blue/gray upholstery type fabric. Again- ask if you need help with the pattern. Cost about $10 if you are savvy.
3. Botas for the lower legs- or wool leggings. Probably cost around $20.0o.
4. Surplus wool blanket- Red or white, light blue is very hard to find. I can't recall any lists with gray but Olive green shows up now and then. These surplus blankets cost around $10.00-Make a Capote coat.
5. Wool felt hat- Crazy Crow, the blanks are $13.00.
6. Center seam, pucker toe moccasins, maybe $15.00.
and....you ought to fit in pretty good. You may look mostly like a Green horn/ camp keeper. Those that were in the mountains a long time ended up in all buck skins- pretty much- always exceptions.

 

[pichou]

Kannik's and Past Patterns. Avoid the rest, except the Folkwear Missouri River Boatman's shirt.

I would go with Kannik's for their shirt and fall front patterns. Use Walmart unbleached canvas for the trousers, and their osnaburg for the shirt. You can bleach the osnaburg... it comes out nice.

As far as I know, the old time red flannel overshirts were all wool flannel. White cotton or linen would be the most common shirt of the time. Prints... you really have to know a lot to get it right.

The NWCo (yes I know, Canada) had hundreds of pairs of cotton trousers on hand.

 

[atki]

as far as fabric goes, you cannot beat these guys: http://www.periodfabric.com/default.htm

The price is very reasonable.

WB

 

[RJR]

Why not post up the sizes of patterns or clothing you are looking for. I'm sure there are a number of us who have patterns laying around that are cut to sizes smaller that what we currently wear, i.e. belly expansion. I'd be willing to share if I have sizes that fit, just send them back when you're done so they could be passed on to the next person. What ever it takes to help someone get started in the sport we all love. Isn't that what we're supposed to do as a frontier community? JMHO

 

[bwhoffman]

You could post your email address and you just might get a bunch a stuff sent your way!
I am sure there are others like myself with a computer full of stuff collected over the years!

.....bag patterns, how to articles, capote patterns ect!

I know I would look for you and send what I have!

 

[tshrcav8r]

Thanks for all your responses. I am looking for patterns for a shirt, pants and capote. I have found a shirt pattern on NativeTech. Is this shirt appropriate?

NativeTech Shirt Pattern

As far a pants, if you have a pattern to share, I would appreciate it. I wear 34 x 32. If the Kannik pattern is the way to go, then I will go a buy that pattern.

I have seen in other posts on this forum, that Harbor Freight has red and grey wool blankets on sale, $7 for red and $11 for grey. I was thinking of making a capote and out of one of these, as well as a red wool overshirt.

I have seen one capote pattern on the web, but I would like to get a pattern that might have decent instructions with it. Does anyone have any suggestions?

My email is [email protected] if you have a pattern to share.

I am hoping to outfit myself as for reasonable cost, until I gain more knowledge. I enjoy making and building as much as shooting.

Sorry to be asking so many questions, but there is so much available knowledge on this forum and people willing to share what they know.

The only pattern that I have to share that I have created is for this bag that I made.

My shooting bag

Brett, I think we have already swapped bag patterns. If any one is interested, I can share this pattern.

Here is a link to rifle I intend to use:

My rifle

I don't really know if it is correct for the period, but it's what I have.

Thanks again, Tim

 

[pichou]

The Native Tech pattern looks fine, but leave off the yoke and the front ruffles. That yoke is not a period thing, and ruffles aren't for work shirts. I also wouldn't use a T-slit in the front, just a straight slit, and roll that edge and stitch by hand. You can add a heart shape reinforcement at the bottom. You will probably want a collar that is taller than what they have... stand and fall that is about 4" - 5" high.

 

[crockett]

I agree on the yoke, some of the art work of the day suggests the body of the shirt was one piece, folded over the shoulders (like a poncho) with a slit cut for your head to fit through. This will actually save you some sewing.
1. You fold the body of the shirt in half- the creased or folded part will be over the shoulders.
2. Start by sewing the sides of the shirt. You often see the bottom of the side seam left open as a slit. Maybe the last 5".
3. The pattern you posted has an integral gusset. You could also cut the sleeve square and add a separate piece as the gusset. The gusset lets you raise your arms. On these box shirts the shoulder area of the body portion extends quite a bit over the upper arm so the sleeve is shorter.
4. The bottom end of the seam on the sleeve is left as a slit to allow you to put your hand through. On a modern shirt a separate slit is cut.
5, The cuff on the period shirt is often only an inch or so wide.
6. You will have to pucker the top of the sleeve to the shoulder area of the shirt and also pucker the sleeve to the cuff. You can eyeball this. I like to "baste" or loosely sew the parts together to hold everything in place and then put in the final stitching. You pull out the basting as you proceed. I would suggest you first leave plenty of room on the cut out parts and pin everything. Try on the shirt and adjust the pins. Then baste the parts - you'll probably adjust the basting as well. At that point you can trim off the excess and sew everything together. Always keep a pattern of your work- I use paper grocery bags- heavy paper- for future shirts.
You'll probably have more questions as you plan your project- ask lots of questions.

 

[pichou]

Shirt cuffs for 30's should be modern width, with a single button at the upper end. Overshirts still often had the narrow cuff.

Looking at that pattern again, you will want to make the body in one piece, and slit the neck straight across, too wide, add a gusset at each end (about a 3 or 4" square cut in half), and then gather the oversize neck opening to fit the collar. Gather the top of the sleeve as mentioned.

There are a couple other reinorcements: along the shoulder line, and around the arm opening. Worth buying the pattern for these and the period sewing details. Most patterns don't have this info, but Kannik's does.

 

[crockett]

Pichou: I was basing the cuff on a Caleb Bingham painting:
http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_...1&dd1=2&dd2=0&vw=1&collID=2&OID=20010501&vT=1

You can blow up the painting and to me it looks like the cuff is short, maybe an inch wide however Bingham did his paintings in the late 1840's so I may be wrong. The puckering at the top of the sleeve and around the cuff is visible.
When I made my shirt I made a T cut for the head opening but I did not re-enforce the ends of the T because I didn't know how. How are these re-enforcement pieces sewn in? Another trouble area (for me at least) was doing the rolled edge for the front neck opening.

 

[tshrcav8r]

Here is another shirt pattern that I found on the web. Is this a better pattern?

http://www.nwta.com/patterns/pdfs/261MensShirt.pdf

 

[pichou]

Here is another shirt pattern that I found on the web. Is this a better pattern?

http://www.nwta.com/patterns/pdfs/261MensShirt.pdf

OK that looks good, except:

Shoulder reinforcement looks 2x too wide, and should go on after the sleeve is in.

Neck opening should be rolled, without a placket piece.

Heart goes inside.

-----
Overshirts and workshirts, narrow is OK for cuffs, 1st half, 19th c. For a white shirt, make them wide, with the button on the upper part. Those cuffs sit halfway between the wrist and 1st thumb joint, i.e. longer than modern.

The NWTA pattern shows the proper neck gusset.

Rolling is just like folding twice for a finished seam, only by rolling, you get a much narrower hem.

Shirts should be long enough to cover your privates when you have your trousers off, and not knee length.

 

[crockett]

That shirt site sure shows a lot, like how the neck gusset fits in and the gusset at the split in the side, etc. To be honest, I never had much faith in a lot of the patterns because I thought they wouldn't have that much information so....I sort of "winged it"
In any event, on the Kannik's Patterns, do they have that type of detail on doing each step? If they do then I would say they are well worth the price- save one a lot of time and bother.

 

[jbtusa]

Use your local library to get all of the Book Of Buckskinning book series. The library can get them all using the inter-library loan system. That way you can read and copy what you need for free. The BoB books have cheap ways of making just about everything.

 

[pichou]

The Kannik's instructions are the best out there, both on how the $%^&* stuff goes together ( :haha: ) and also historical info on construction.

IMHO ( :surrender: ) BoB is for reenactors by reenactors, not (costume) historians, and second, the early volumes are frightfully outdated. :v

 

[mmahlock]

I recently ran across a reference to shirts that some might find interesting in a recently written history of the 95th Regt. of the British Army during the Peninsular War against the French.

Rifle Green in the Peninsula Volume II by George Caldwell and Robert Cooper

Page 95
(20 Sept 1810) Rifleman Green, on finding a bed sheet in one of the houses, had the company tailor make it into a shirt.

This was followed up by the following.

Page 108
(27 Sept 1810) Bugler William Green ”¦ sewed the shirt together which the tailor and cut out of a bed sheet for him, declaring that the one he was wearing only came to his waist.

Apparently the tailor just cut out the shirt parts and left it up to Green to do the sewing. Which leaves me with the question, did the company tailor carry patterns with him for small clothes and other items he was expected to make on campaign or as a tailor did he have to learn to cut freehand from whole cloth certain items of clothing? Whichever, the shirt had to be simple enough for Green to sew up on his own.

 

[Strawstalker/NM]

Txharrison:

You are in luck - New Mexico Mountain Men have a statewide club and the booshway is Myron Yancey, from Edgewood. Myron can be reached at 286-7764.I rendezvoused with these folk for 17 years and just moved from Tijeras to Grand Junction, Co last september. There are about seven good rendezvous held in NM each year. This is a great bunch of folks to fall in with. Tell Myron the Strawstalker sent you. Good luck.

 

[pichou]

A shirt is all rectangles... not rocket science. :grin: