Newbie questions

[GBob01]

Just getting into the BP pistol. I've got a 1851 Colt. Everything I read tells me to make sure that the ball is fully seated against the powder. Looking at the cylinder depth and the plunger length I find it hard to believe that the plunger will push the ball down far enough to seat it against a 13gr load. Are my eyes just playing tricks on me? Is any filler necessary?

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Flintlock_bob]

I don't know if it will fully seat the ball but most people would tell you to add filler so the ball is closer to the barrel for better accuracy.

 

[Rebel]

Not sure why you want to use 13 gr. but no, it won't seat the ball on that small a charge. Either use a filler like corn meal, or use a larger powder charge. You can also take up some of the space by using an Ox Yoke wonder wad over the powder. They take up a bit of space and also help keep the fouling down in the barrel. I always use them in a revolver.

 

[Two Trails]

I usually shoot 20 GRS 3f in mine and it is an accurate load with not a lot of recoil. Since the ball will have to travel into the forcing cone on the barrel I don't know if the distance from the cylinder to the cone will affect the ball deformation dramatically. 13 seems like a pretty light load unless you are shooting a .36 caliber.
Two Trails

 

[GBob01]

That's what it is I'm shooting is .36 cal. 1851 Colt Sheriff (5-1/2 bbl). The book says 9-12gr, but I have seen load charts up to 14gr. Should I go any higher than that? I would think not, given that I haven't seen any loads higher than that, but I'm sure some of you know way more about this than I do.

 

If this revolver is the same as most 1851 Navies, except for the barrel length, I don't understand why such light chargs would even be recommended. I've always fired a charge of 20 grs. in my '51's and it's always been "accurate enough". As others have said, if you want to shoot that light a load then you'll have to finish filling the chamber with some kind of filler. I prefer cream of wheat but corn meal and Malto Meal work too.

Vic

 

[AZ-Robert]

It is hard to believe the manufacturer would let it happen that the plunger doesn't go deep enough to properly seat the ball. But if you want to make sure, try this:

Use a skinny dowel or a pencil to measure the depths involved. Start with an empty chamber; drop a dowel or the eraser end of a pencil into the chamber; mark the spot where the dowel meets the front face of the cylinder.

Remove the dowel; measure out your powder charge; pour the powder into the chamber. Now reinsert the dowel so it rests on top of the powder charge; draw a line on the dowel where it meets the edge of the cylinder.

Remove the dowel and empty the powder from the chamber, for safety's sake.

Your dowel is now marked with two lines, one representing the level of the 13 grain powder charge, the other is the full depth of the chamber. The space between the two marks gets shared out between wad, ball, and empty space that you may want to fill up with some sort of filler.

If you are using a 1/8" wad between the powder and the ball, make a mark about 1/8" above the line that marks the powder charge (or slightly less than 1/8" to account for compression). Put the edge of a .36 ball on this mark and make another mark at the other end of the ball.

The difference between the last line you drew and the first line you drew (marking the full depth of the chamber) is the distance of travel required from the loading plunger if you are not using any filler.

Swing the plunger into the cylinder and mark on the plunger the spot where it meets the edge of the cylinder. Now compare the distance between the face of the plunger and the mark you just made with the marks you made on the dowel. The distance between the two marks on the dowel should be less than the distance between the face of the plunger and the mark where it meets the face of the cylinder.

What I'm shooting is .36 cal. 1851 Colt Sheriff (5-1/2 bbl). The book says 9-12gr, but I have seen load charts up to 14gr. Should I go any higher than that?

It's always a good idea to stick within the maker's recommended min and max loads. My 1851 Navy in 36 caliber (uses a .375" ball) was made by Uberti. It came with a leaflet titled "Black Powder Revolvers" that gave a load of 16 grains for target shooting with round ball and a max load of 25 grains for round ball, and 15 grains max for conicals. Another leaflet in the same box, titled "Muzzleloading Manual" gave a load range of 15 - 22 grains as the range of "best accuracy."

What size ball did the maker recommend for your revolver?

 

[Rebel]

If it is a well built 1851 you can safely fill the cylinder chambers nearly full and leave just enough room to seat the ball and it will be safe. You can not overload a revolver(WITH BLACK POWDER). Do not, under any circumstances use smokeless powder in one.

 

[GBob01]

The book I got with the pistol from Pietta, recommends 9-12gr with a .375 dia ball. I personally have no problems with going to a higher load and guess I probably will as that did seem small.

 

[SAJones]

I shoot 15 grs for target, 25 grs as a "full load". Yes, use filler. I prefer the creamof wheat kind as it flows better than most substances, especially corn meal. None of my revolvers (about a dozen) will seat a ball all the way down on a light load

 

[Toomuch_36]

If this revolver is the same as most 1851 Navies, except for the barrel length, I don't understand why such light chargs would even be recommended.

If (as memory serves me) GBob01's '51 Sheriff model has a shorter cylinder than the full size '51 Navy model which would be the reasoning behind the lighter loads. In which case the plunger will fully seat the ball, but I would still use a felt wad between the powder & ball.

Toomuch
.............
Shoot Flint

 

[mewing6003]

If this revolver is the same as most 1851 Navies, except for the barrel length, I don't understand why such light chargs would even be recommended. I've always fired a charge of 20 grs. in my '51's and it's always been "accurate enough". As others have said, if you want to shoot that light a load then you'll have to finish filling the chamber with some kind of filler. I prefer cream of wheat but corn meal and Malto Meal work too.

Vic

I still dont understand why the makers continue to recommend super light charges. Surely the liability of having recommended too light of a charge with the possibility of air between the ball and the charge would outweigh the liability of a few extra grains of powder?

However, I shoot mine with 20 grains straight up with corn meal or cream of wheat filler under the ball. Either filler works fine IMO.

Sharps, where are you getting Malto Meal? I cant find that in New England, and I love to eat it, not to stuff it in guns! :rotf:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If your gun has a brass frame, you had better stick with the lighter loads, so that on recoil, the recoil " shield" behind the cylinder does not take a beating from the cylinder moving back on the cylinder pin. Repeated pounding of the brass frame will develope a ring that is a deep groove, and the setback on the cylinder will have the primers on the unshot chambers striking the edge of the loading gate opening, on the right side of the revolver. You can get a double fire, where one shot goes out the barrel, and the other is a chamber on the right side of the gun, and the ball fires off down along side the barrel and usually hits the ground in front of the gun. Usually. I had this happen to a brass framed 1851 replica revolver I shot for a number of years, but never shot more than 150 rounds through, using 22 grains of FFFg powder, a wonder wad under the ball, but no fillers. The recoil was okay, but the gun was beat to death, I sold it to a gunsmith for parts. I would have had to have a washer made to fit that ring groove, made of steel, to set that cylinder forward enough to make it safe to fire. Double fires are just a little too exciting for most range officers. :shocked2:

 

[davy]

You can also make or buy one of these so you can load it any level you want! :thumbsup:

Davy

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Powder WAD Ball WAD (optional)

it all fits

 

This helpful instrument is $10.28 at Midsouth Shooters Supply, and $32.00 at the last Las Vegas Gun-Show!

Someone wonder why the gun-shows kill themselves?

Lemmingism rampant.

 

[Pinkerton]

:thumbsup:
I would have to agree, as in my Lyman loading manuel, all loads for the 1851 in .36 cal, using .375 round ball, list's 14 grns of 3-F as the Starting load, and @ 26 to 29 being maximum.
The only listing for the 10 grn starting load
is for .380 diameter round ball.
The plunger will only go so far down, but if at least the minimum charge is used it should compress the charge.