NIB Seneca .45 Cal

[Valkyrie45]

Hello to all, I am new to this site and was hoping to learn a thing or two. I have been looking for a smaller caliber ML and picked two up at a recent estate sale.

Both are Thompson Centers, one a 45 cal. and the other is a 36 cal. When I got them home I assembled the new one (45 cal) and noticed it was stamped with the word "Seneca"! The 36 cal. doesn't say anything on tha barrel except the TC info, the caliber and the serial number (42XXX). It looks like a small Hawkins with brass hardware and patch box but don't they usually identify it as a specific model? Any ideas what I have?
What is the NIB Seneca 45 cal. Worth? I saw a used 36 cal. Seneca at a gun show last weekend and they had it priced at $900!!!!! I was going to shoot the Seneca but now am not sure what I should do. Any thoughts?

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I would shoot it and enjoy it.

 

[bubba.50]

the 36cal is a seneca also. probably a lot more t/c's around without model namestamps on'em than are with namestamp. i'm gonna go out on a limb here & guess that the one you saw marked for $900.00 was still on the table when the show was over. people ask prices that are all over the board. what ya hafta look at is what the ones that actually sell are goin' for. dependin' on condition i'd say that 3 to 5 hundred would be more realistic. if ya have the box & any extras to go with them maybe a bit more. go on gunbroker & look at the ones that are actually bein' bid on for a better idea of worth. these are my opinions and yer welcome to'em. luck & have a good'en friend, bubba.

 

[necchi]

Wow, NIB,,
They did identify it as a specific model,, Seneca
That is a rare find indeed.
However finding a market for the Seneca as nothing but a cherished collectable is going to be tuff. I'm sure there are folks out there that would love to have it and keep it as NIB condition, but finding those people will be tricky.

The Seneca while being sought after because of it's size and use as a Ladies and Youth rifle isn't really an antique, it's just an out of production , therefore limited issue rifle.

This is predominately a shooters forum not a collectors forum, we even want to shoot true antiques, :haha:

I'll go out on a limb and say you could get 600 for it complete maybe a little more, sadley you could probably get that much easily "parted out"
That would be a shame though.

Not haveing an idea how much you have invested, I guess (if it where me) I'd sit on it as is just to keep it un-fired if I had 400 or less in it.
If and When the Novelty of haveing it wore off I'd list it at auction for a minimum of 600-700 and see if it goes. I mean a profit of a few hundered is nice, but it's not going to allow retirement.
Or sell it to fund the purchase of a rile I want,,,

 

[Rifleman1776]

However finding a market for the Seneca as nothing but a cherished collectable is going to be tuff.

Disagree.
They are great shooters and fit all but very large people. Methinks they are highly desirable and it is a puzzlement why TC did not keep them on the market longer.
As to price, the $300.00 to $500.00 range is a good guesstimation.

 

[necchi]

I ment finding someone that wants to just put it in a the locker or hang it on the wall as a collector.
People want them to shoot,,

 

[Prairieofthedog]

bubba50,you are not going to find many Cherokees or Senecas for $300 bucks unless they are beat to a pulp or you are lucky.Especially in .36 cal.They consistently go for $400-700 on the auction sites depending on condition.On E-bay 2 weeks ago a Seneca .36 with a auction for the barrel and the stock and lock brought over $750 with shipping.Used not "NIB".

 

[cynthialee]

You got a good deal.

 

[bubba.50]

there are numerous fools on gunbroker & evil-bay that put ridiculous prices on their stuff & occasionally they find an even bigger fool that will pay that price. that bein' said i still maintain that if ya track'em for a while & look at the ones that actually sell, not just the ones with a ridiculous startin' bid, you'll notice that an average condition seneca will go in the price range i mentioned. exceptionally nice or n.i.b. ones will go for more. especially in the smaller calibers.

and there's just no accountin' for some of the fools that find their way to evil-bay & pay more for a stock or barrel than they coulda bought a complete gun for.

my opinions & yer welcome to'em.

 

[F.G. Ford]

I have had a Seneca in .36 cal.
It was one of the nicest shooting BP rifles that I have ever had.
I gave it to a friend.
Since TC no longer makes them, they may have a collector value, "IF" you can find a buyer.
At $700 to $900, I would be looking at a custom rifle.
So if you got them, enjoy them....shoot them.
Parts will become hard to get, and if you put after market parts on them, they lose value.
So what are your options?
If you got these rifles for a good price. Gloat and be happy.
You will wait a long time for them to increase in value to a few thousand dollars.
Fred

 

[Rifleman1776]

I ment finding someone that wants to just put it in a the locker or hang it on the wall as a collector.
People want them to shoot,,

OK. Mea culpa. :redface:

 

[ohio ramrod]

Seneca's and Cherokee's are highly sought after in our area and bring $400.00 and up. Though some times you get lucky and find some for less. Just remember they are a LIGHT rifle and not intended for heavy charges.

 

[HellBound]

Seneca-Cherokee at %95 or better RETAILS at about
$600. NIB, a bit more. Prices are drifting up.
36 and 32 more desirable. Cherokee a little more
desirable. There is a big difference if you are a
collector or primarily a shooter. Often a rifle
will be a great shooter and be absolutely worthless on the market.


P.A.

 

[Valkyrie45]

Thank you for your input and suggestions. At the time of the auction I was not aware the Seneca existed. I guess I figured everything was a Hawkins, just scaled down depending on the caliber. There was a third used 45 caliber at the sale and if I had known then what I know now I would have bought it too for a shooter and keep the NIB 45 in the box.

I guess no one else at the sale knew what they were either. I got them for $200 each, but they brought more than any other ML at the sale.

Does any of the Cherokee Rifles have their name inscribed on the barrel? How do you tell them from the Seneca? Does it look any different?
Thanks again for your help.

 

[SgtSchutzen]

I might be wrong because I don`t worship Thompson Centers like some guys here, but I think a Cherokee is basically just a Seneca without a patchbox? If I remember right the Cherokee also came in a single trigger version?

 

[William O.]

Well, since you got them at such a good price here is what I would do. Assumning that both rifles fit me well, as in the sights were easy to line up quickly and shoulder/upper arm to buttplate is a comfortable shooting position, I would choose the caliber most useful to me and sell the other in order to pay for all the accesories and accoutrments needed for shooting the one. I already have a .54 caliber which will handle anything that I would want to hunt. In fact it will cut the head clean off a cotton tail, but that's besides the point. For the times that headshots on small game don't present themselves I would want a smaller caliber and the .36 fits the bill quite nicely. Now, I'm 6'4" so neither of those Senecas has enough lenght of pull (LOP) for me to shoot comfortably so I would sell both and hopefully have enough money to be able to buy a nice, high end kit, in the white with the right measurements for my 15inch LOP already built right into the stock.
But I've been shooting muzzle loaders for a while and kinda know my way around, if you are a begginer that might be too bewildering. Ask yourself what you want to accomplish? Having a great target shooter and then moving up to something to hunt with, or the other way around? Check out what opportunities there are in your area for both activities, and that might be the deciding factor alone. I've hate to see you sell these and then buy some that just doesn't please you, knowing what you had to begin with. Shooting either rifle will decrease the value somewhat but lack of care and cleaning will destroy the value quicker than you can imagine.
How about this, keep them for now and learn all about the care and feeding of a muzzle loader, including how factors such as LOP, drop and off-set affect shooting one, them make your decision.
I hope this helps and doesn't confuse you further.

 

[bubba.50]

the cherokee doesn't have a nosecap or patchbox. also, the fore-end is about an inch or so shorter & the barrel is two or three inches shorter. also, the cherokee could be had in the more economical single trigger version.

 

[necchi]

Seneca-Cherokee at %95 or better RETAILS at about
$600. NIB, a bit more. Prices are drifting up.
36 and 32 more desirable. Cherokee a little more desirable.

Really? The Cherokee is the plain jane version,, :hmm:

 

[Rat Trapper]

The Seneca looks like a smaller TC hawken. Those Seneca rifles are the right weight for small game hunting when found in the small calibers. The lenght of pull is a little shorter on the Cherokee and they are a plain jane rifle. when found in 32 caliber those Cherokees are nice squirrel/rabbit rifles. Add a TC peep that was made just for them (rare)and you have a super small game rifle.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I might be wrong because I don`t worship Thompson Centers like some guys here, but I think a Cherokee is basically just a Seneca without a patchbox? If I remember right the Cherokee also came in a single trigger version?

You are right, some folks do almost worship the TCs.
Even though I have two in the safe, a Seneca and a 'hawken' I don't "worship" them. But, one does have to admit the TC ml rifles have been a huge factor on growing the avocation of shooting traditional style ml rifles. The TCs have taken a place in that history. BTW, mine were purchased more than 40+ years ago. My wife has won stacks of medals shooting the Seneca in competition and has take deer with it. My 'hawken' has fared well in competition also. I have never used it for hunting as I have other rifles for that.