NMLRA Solicitations

[Ohio Joe]

I like the idea of a Traditional Blackpowder Association. I
don't see where it would be that hard to define. We define
it easily at every Traditional Muzzle Loading Rifle Shoot we
attend.

O'kay,,, let's say we have a Traditional Blackpowder Assoc.,
and the bills begin to pile up from lack of membership and support. What do we do then? Do we fold up, or do we look
for alternatives?

Alternatives? We'll sell advertising space in our monthly
magazine. Here are some thoughts of who we can sell this
advertising to; Thompson Center, Traditions, Cabellas, CVA?
No, that wouldn't work, they sell inlines. :hmm: What will we do?

There's not a lot of alternatives for the NMLRA folks. The
membership rates could be raised again? How many are lost
when this happens? I don't agree with the NMLRA on inline
muzzle loaders, but it beats the alternative of having no
Association.

If you want change in the NMLRA, become a member and voice
your opinion. If you want to stand on the outside and hope
other's will do this for you, well, your just passing the buck and will have to settle for what is decided on. :imo: eace:

 

[roundball]

FYI, I have found nothing in the NMLRA literature referring to any official lobbying division or organization within the NMLRA structure.

I do not believe they have any such organization and do not believe they produce any lobbying influence or have a national voice in anything in this regard.

By contrast, the NRA does have an official lobbying arm, it's attempts & efforts are routinely published, and it's not uncommon to even hear of NRA activities occasionally being covered by national news media, etc.

IMHO, I'm not sure that anyone who joins the NMLRA and gets a magazine should automatically assume the NMLRA is now representing their ML interests in Washington like the NRA.

I am not an authority on the subject, and would be glad to be referred to any official reference documention, legislation, etc, to the contracy.

And to be clear, I do embrace any kind of muzzleloader in the greater picture of hunting & shooting enthusiasts, as I do believe we are all together in that regard.

This post is only referring to the recent NMLRA change in their view of allowable entries in the Longhunter Record Book...it was set up for traditional and I believe it should remain that way for reasons that should be obvious to anyone...separate record books can be established for modern muzzleloading.

 

[rayb]

Most everyone on this forum is a shooter, it seems.

:imo:

If it shoots, we had better all support it.

Our opponents, the anti-gun crowd, are delighted when we decide to bicker amond ourselves rather that fight the anti gunners.

So i will say i support, and maybe the rest should consider supporting:

traditionalists
primitive only
flintlocks
percussion guns
inlines
schutzen style
any other type of black powder gun
cartridge guns of any type, rimfire, center fire or electric
smokeless powder guns
air guns
machine guns (yes, it's legal to own and fire a machine gun)
replica guns
primitive bows
compound bows
and anything else that shoots a projectile, round, long and skinny, or short and fat made of lead, aluminum, fiberglass, wood or whatever

:m2c:



rayb

 

[Ohio Joe]

I can not disagree with you on your reply, "rayb".

Approaching your list from a competitive angle, none of these firearms were ment to compete with one another. They are seperate.

Record books for trophy animals should be seperated into the catagories you list. Though I don't believe I'd establish one for machine guns, and air guns. See,,, just
can't make everyone happy. :what:

 

[Dave Poss]

Traditional Blackpowder Assoc.....or ......take it to the NMLRA ? I don't know how many members there are in the forum or how many are actual NMLRA members but do you think a petition showing our displeasure would make any impact? Georgia only has a little over 300 members: If a few hundred expressed their displeasure via the forum,and since This forum gets a national feedback on topics ; "they" might see that they could lose the equivelant of a state in membership by not staying with their roots.What think ye?

:imo:


:sorry:I'm sorry by overstepping the idea of useing the forum for this.After re-reading my thought,It dawned on me that this should NOT be a political avenue that MF should take. But, could a petition be handled under the Traditional Muzzleloading section if the idea seemed worthwhile?

 

[roundball]

ALTERNATIVES

There are usually benefits and power that come from size...it seems that collaboration and/or merger of the NMLRA with the NRA would have to be beneficial...the NRA could be set up like a corporation, with various divisions within it...one being a Traditional Muzzleloading Division, another being a Modern Muzzleloading Division, etc, etc...seems like it would be a win-win for everybody

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm sorry by overstepping the idea of using the forum for this.After re-reading my thought,It dawned on me that this should NOT be a political avenue that MF should take.

Very good. You have learned well, Weedhopper. Politics is taboo here, which is as it should be.

We cannot apply leverage as "The Forum" within the M/L community because we do not speak with one voice here. This is an open medium and we do all we can to keep it friendly to ALL muzzleloaders; traditional or those poor, confused and tortured souls. It would be wrong for a portion of us to carry the forum banner into a factional battle within the overall M/L community. Claude's already thinning hair would be dropping out in clumps.

 

I agree with the inline situation as being out of hand with the nmlra,but I still renew my membership and let my views be known.If my choice for President of the United States does not get elected,I am not turning in my citizenship.Giving up was never a good option for me,even though it came close to getting me killed several times.Maybe I'm just stubborn.

 

[Ohio Joe]

longknife,

I see nothing wrong with taking a poll and seeing how many
folks would like the NMLRA to get back to it's roots. I
would certainly like to see them do this.

Zonie, in so many words pointed out earlier that if your not an NMLRA member, you have no voice in what goes on in
the Association. This is true. This is the way it should
be. I have not paid dues all these years to have someone
who is not an NMLRA member dictate to me what my club
will do, and what they won't do.

If NMLRA Forum member's would like to have a poll about
this, we need to ask Claude. We could then send the
results to the NMLRA along with our membership number.
NMLRA non member opinion's will mean nothing. And why
should they?

You could count me in on such a poll. I will not vote
along side of a non NMLRA member however. No more then
I agree with that Jim Shockey being in the record book.
I will not help other's destroy the NMLRA... eace:

 

[Ohio Joe]

roundball,

I understand what your saying. What would be wrong with the
NMLRA doing this? I agree that the inline issue is way out
of hand. Shockey is just another example of this. We need
to change the Association's S.O.P., not give up the one thing that is still devoted to muzzle loading,,, no matter
how misguided they are right now. I'm with you, not against you on these issues. eace:

 

[Dave Poss]

Ohio Joe .... there are alot of X members who have quit the NMLRA because of this very issue. If the petition were worded such to show "them" that they have already lost some because of their stand, It may even have more of an impact. From past exp. I know that a % of former members of anything drop out over a period of time. To the NMLRA that % would be figured as " lost interest in muzzleloading...died...couldn't afford it anymore...ect. I think that telling them that there are other reasons people are quitting is not a bad idea. Even those that have NEVER been members might join up if the in-line star war guns were out of the picture and it could be some of the old timers at Friendship don't have a clue that this is even a problem!!! Just my thoughts...

 

[Ohio Joe]

longknife,,,

I'm sure there are alot of ex NMLRA members out there who quit because of the inline issue's. I wonder how many of them out there who claim to be traditionalist realize that every time they purchase something from companies that make traditional items they need, that those same companies they are buying from are either making or selling the inlines, and products that go with them?

To name some; Thompson Center, Traditions, Dixie Gun Works, Green Mountain Barrel Co., Cabellas, CVA, to name a few. What about the publications? Muzzle Blast, Muzzleloader Magazine. Yes, Muzzleloader Magazine supports the inline muzzleloaders because they allow advertising by; Dixie Gun Works, Green Mountain Barrel Co., who sells and promotes Knight Solvent, Knight Oil, Sabot Bullets (see page 67 of the September/October Issue). The NMLRA advertises for membership in Muzzleloader Magazine.

Most likely we have all supported the inline industry in some manner when we've made a purchase through one of these companies. Even when we buy powder, ball, and caps.

I don't see where the NMLRA is doing anything different then the companies we've been supporting? I want the NMLRA to be traditional. Yet we don't say anything about the Alternate Range Use at Friendship where they shoot cartridge guns on the Walter Cline Range.

I think all of us need to take a step back and think about these things? :hmm: eace:

 

The Problem as I see it is the NMLRA has been heading this way for some time. No one is quitting but instead dropping their support. I have come to the point were the only way to make them understand is to cut the money I give them. I stayed during the fake powder issues , when folks said what next water proof powder and plastic stocks . I stayed during the conical issues when folks said haaa wait a minute are we going to let in plastic saboo next ?
Well folks that

 

[Dave Poss]

Good point. I'm much better with thoughts than words...Can't seem to get the two to come out on paper (screen?) All I'm trying to say is YES..I support all guns, shooters , and hunters......but I would not take a flintlock pistol to a GLOCK match and expect to be welcomed by demanding I am equal since they are both pistols ! I hate to use a pharse popular in the 50-60's...but I think it applies to in-lines- Separate but Equal! I support their right to own one and shoot it, I just don't want to be lumped into the same classification by the NMLRA. sorry to keep going on about it. I'll try to keep quiet eace:

 

[Ohio Joe]

longknife,

I too have trouble putting my thoughts to paper. Captchee summed it up right. I will still continue my support of the NMLRA, but that is my choice. I don't ever want to forget the history and the memory of those who made the NMLRA what it was, when it was in it's hay day,,, a good 'ol traditional muzzle loading club. eace:

 

No the NMLRA should stand on its principles and not lower or broaden its standards or it as it now dose violates the principles that it was built on and becomes just another group buying for our money. It then stops being an organization for the betterment of traditional black powder shooting and becomes an organization for black powder shooting. What next cowboy action and cartridge guns ??? Why not its not such a far stretch after all they shoot BP to , why not let them in IMO they are far closer to us then modern inline shooters are.

Well put, and seems we both share some'a the same thots!!

I feel more of a "kindred" with fellas shoot'n the old buffalo cartridge guns, then I do with folks use'n modern inlines. I imagine it's because the old buffalo cartridge guns shot/shoot "simple fare", and unlike modern inlines they have a "niche" in our american history.

I never thot thet my buy'n powder'n slow-twist barrels might be support'n the modern inline industry, maybe it's time fer me'ta switch to a "self-bow", homemade arrows'n knaped arrowheads! :cry: :hmm:

YMHS
rollingb

 

maybe it's time fer me'ta switch to a "self-bow", homemade arrows'n knaped arrowheads!

you shouldnt have to and thats my point if you want to shoot a compound then thats fine but realize that bow season was founded for guys shooting traditional bows not recuved compounds with over draws, balancers and 2114 easton arrow ripping of the bow a 400 FPS. the bow guys are now fighting just to keep cross bows with scopes out of their archery season . we as traditional muzzleloaders i think are in a spot where we can look at other traditional ways and use their hind sight and recognize these modern guys but in there own right not in ours.

for those who are going to say what tradtional ways captchee ! im going to say I rest my case , think about it

 

[Zonie]

Just speaking for myself: I grew up when real guns were made out of fine wood with blued steel barrels and machined steel trigger guards. They had iron sights or 4 power telescopic sights.
I joined the NRA because it represented firearm owners and supported hunting and shooting events. It also had a history of supporting and defending the 2nd Ammendment.
It later expanded by adding a lobby which defends the 2nd ammendment and all that goes with it.

When they started carrying ads for plastic framed pistols with stainless steel barrels (which I really hate) and rifles with fluted stainless steel barrels, plastic/fiberglass stocks and see in the dark telescopic sights and selling Life Insurance and flashlights and dam near everything else, and started including monthly reviews of 4 wheel drive vehicles in their magazine, and bombarding my mailbox with their hands out every other week, if I stuck to my principles like some of the people here on this forum, I would QUIT!

I could then sit and complain that they aren't the old organazation they once were. Or I could try to start a new National Rifle Association. A association that only talked about pre 1960 guns with no plastic parts, and only held pistol shooting matches for pre 1960 Colts and Smith&Wessons (which I like). And Rifle shooting matches which prohibit anything with plastic or stainless parts from competing.

Well, I'm not going to quit, because the NRA is still basically the same institution it used to be. It just has kept up with the times.

It still has the old style guns along with the new ones, and it still holds the same shooting matches, and supports hunting and the Second Ammendment and as a bonus, it fights for my rights in Washington.

I feel the same about the NMLRA.
It holds National shooting matches, supports hunting nation wide and has the old guns that interest me in it's magazine. In other words, it supports my interests, even though it has articles about the Modern style muzzleloaders which don't interest me.
No, it does not have a lobby for us, but with only 20,000 members, it can't afford to enter into that high priced arena.

Sure, there are things I would like to see changed in both the NRA and NMLRA and by being a member of both, I do have a voice (be it a small one) to ask for those changes.

I'm a member in both organazations and proud of it. :redthumb:

 

however zonie the NRA is about shooters, all shooters always has been always will be
NRA was never founded or based on traditional shooters , it pages have never been full of traditional muzzleloaders and articals on how to make buckskins or loading block .
the NRA has kept up with time , it has to shooting as a sport has many aspects and has evolved over time and protecting the 2nd amendment is all part of that .

however the NMLRA was not founded as a general shooters orginization but a traditional BP shooters orginazation there is a big diffrence in the two
i joined the NRA to help protect the 2nd amendment nothing else . i joined the NMLRA becouse I was interested in the traditional aspect of muzzleloading not power pellets and sabos or senthetic stocks with 10X scopes and 2600FPS bullets coming out of an 06 frame . if i wanted that i would by a secound membership to the NRA

 

[gordy]

Gary; thanks for the information,as soon as possible will send in a subscription for it.(Muzzleloader Mag.)I hope I didn't give the impression that everybody should drop their membership in the N.M.L.R.A.,on the contrary,the Org.has served the Traditional muzzleloading community well for many years.But I do believe it's time for active members to bring those problems We've discussed in this thread,to the attention of the folks in charge.I would doubt that Red Ferris and the rest of the (Old Timers) would accept the direction it's heading at this time.The reason They started the Org.was because of Their passion for the preservation of,and promotion of the old ways.I would hope that the Org. will continue for many more generations. :thumbsup: :imo: