NMLRA

[bpbrs]

But for the same reason they were allowed to speak at the U.N. hearings on small arms (the NRA wasn't)

National Rifle Association of America
Category Civil/Human Rights, Education
Region North America
Website[url] http://www.nra.org[/url]
Headquarters Fairfax, VA, USA
UN Status A1 - ECOSOC Roster Consultative Status since 1996.
Mission "Established in 1990, The NRA Foundation, Inc. is an organization that raises tax-deductible contributions in support of a wide range of firearm-related public interest activities of the National Rifle Association of America and other organizations that defend and foster the Second Amendment rights of all law-abiding Americans. These activities are designed to promote firearms and hunting safety, to enhance marksmanship skills of those participating in the shooting sports, and to educate the general public about firearms in their historic, technological and artistic context. Funds granted by The NRA Foundation benefit a variety of constituencies throughout the United States including children, youth, women, individuals with physical disabilities, gun collectors, law enforcement officers, and hunters.
Initiatives Firearms education
Leadership Larry J. Schweiger, President and CEO
Annual Revenue $233,151,138
======
The NRA has several not for profit status's, a legal section and an PAC.
I can recall when the San Diego county -Otay Valley Skeet and Trap club closed. I remember helping to bring 2 clubs back from self destruction and in NY the Hunington club has closed its doors for good.

I'll say that in the near future when a person calls one of the firearms groups you will be asked if you're a member...and if not you will be asked to join then on the spot. This before questions will be responded to.
I spent at least an hour telling people how why a NICS check works after they are denied a firearm transfer. The majority of the time they are not members of any group.

If you join a advocacy association for a magazine, then you joined for the wrong reason!
This is the main problem with sportsmen they expect everything their way for a few dollars. Where as a Anti joins to help increase their numbers and get the word out. At the drop of a hat they will rally. Try getting a bunch of fat white guys to a protest between all the reasons and seasons. :shocked2:

The pro gun folks and hunters have hundreds of splinter groups representing them. These splinter groups were all started because some member or director felt he could provide something better.

I joined the nmlra because it was a requirement to shoot regional competitions.
Some BP clubs turn off shooters for a shoot because they require you to be a member to compete at their local club. That last one I can not figure out as I've never been asked or charged a partial membership fee to shoot clay targets at any club.
If you do not like the way an outfit runs get involved, get elected and make the changes necessary to improve the association...if you do not care to help then sit at home and shoot your $2,000.00+ traditional rifle in the backyard untill the jack booted thugs come and take it.

Oh in case anyone missed it~~~
If you join a advocacy association for a magazine, then you joined for the wrong reason!
:hmm:
bpb

 

[mbw907]

I am a member of both the NRA and NMLRA and I am up for renewal at the end of this month for muzzleloader's association. I have given it a lot of thought, along with the heartfelt postings here. I still think that I will pass on NMLRA simply because the price they are charging. It can't be justified to me. Sure, they may have a shooting range and a magazine, and some nice window decals, but it was not a membership that I saw many benefits to being in. Now before I make someone hot or bothered, this is just my opinion. You come to your own conclusion. If there was a membership in a muzzleloader's org. that was more set on the do-it-yourselfers who like to build and have hunts, ect. then I would consider it. But forty bucks should bring me more than a magazine and offers for things for sale.

 

[faw3]

The cost doesnt bother me, its who and how its being run now. This is my last year, I just rejoined. But I did give them (the PREZ) a letter that was a EAR FULL. He addressed it kind of in this last issue, the cra.. about Longhunters, its all in li...and ammo from police hand guns or mil spec stuff, smokeless powder even, and these guys think they are hunters, you do it with a flint or cap rifle then youv done something. I dont know what happened back in 2000 to 2003 but a bunch of "life members" said good bye and weve all seen the rifle makers folding or changeing to in l... I know of 2 more that are going to close this or next year and its really going to hurt first or low buck shooters. Ive stil got a hand written letter from the "Prez" in 2003 when I dropped out then, he agreed with everything I said and was dropping out himself ( I think its 2003). Something is really rotten now, Oh ya the get ya in for $25 is a thing any member can do.And how about the WESTERN SHOOT first prize was a Perdsolin 50 cal IN-LINE ya thats right, so much for the NMLRA Platform and Mission statement, Along with this joke Longhunters is Muzzleloading Afield, this guy cant wait to see nothing but in-l... on every page and meet, all he seems to do is talk about the new pellets or some high power bullet for that new in-l.. well you get the idea. Im going to piss some friends off with writeing this and sorry but someone has to, if everyone would speak up we could turn this thing around, not wave this :surrender: I only rejoined so maybe if my health is a bit better I could go shoot Hawken's at a match with a friend (NO BELONG TO NMLRA-NO CAN PLAY) A lot of older guys that have been on here that really know stuff guys like me that have only been shooting a short time (since 1971) need to know have all got out but wont tell you that, I just hope no more leave this spot we need you. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Fred: What has happened since 2003 is that we have lost a lot more life members due to death than ever before. And as for prizes, you should know that any Non-profit association relies on donated prizes for the shoots. They don't charge enough for the match fees to pay for a really nice rifle. The In##$% folks have been doing very agressive marketing, and since the damn things are so cheap to make, they donate those things to groups to give away as prizes. Its a tax write-off for the company, its free advertising, and its a wedge in the door.

I don't like it either. But, you seem to have answered your own question. With traditional gun builders, and manufacturers closing up, where are the financial help and prizes going to come from?

I only hope that past members will rejoin, and then pitch in and help the association. This is its hour of need, and we are under attack as gun owners, and shooters like never before. Don't join the association just for the magazine. That is not why the organization exists. Sure, its very hard to attend shoots in one location, when people live all over this country. The winter shoot in Arizona held each year has been one way to serve shooters west of the Mississippi. But it would be nice to have major national matches held at 5 or 10 locations around the country each year. NO? But it takes money to have an organization that can provide that much service to its members. It takes money to either buy the ground and build the ranges, or work out a lease agreement with a local range somewhere that would meet the demands for a national shoot. Hell, we could hold two or three national shoots just in the State of Texas, as big as it is, in order to convenience all the shooters who might attend! But, be honest now, just how many ranges exist in Texas that could accomodate a full shooting program as is done at the Nationals?

The NRA Foundation IS a non-profit fund raising organization that supports the shooting sports with grants and funding. But, it relies on local clubs to raise their own funds, and grants are usually for only a portion of the money needed for an event. The money is raised at Friends of the NRA banquets and auctions. A lot of good has been done in a very short time with the money that has been spent, but much more needs to be done.

The NMLRA would like to be able to do similar things, but just doesn't have the membership to consider it. I don't expect the In-#@$%# crowd to join the association, or come out to local club shoots. That is not why they buy the things. But, it is a terrible shame that anyone who claims to like to shoot Traditional ML rifles Doesn't belong to the NMLRA. You can change what the officers do from within, but you can't even get them to listen if you aren't a member.

Right now, the In@#$% manufacturers have been spending a lot of money, and getting a lot of merchandise and people to influence the national Board of Directors, and Officers of the NMLRA to be friendly to their products. If we all follow your lead, and leave, there will be no one left to speak for us. I don't see the value of that particular stategy.

Oh, I know that all of you can write, so write an article about your favorite gun, or hunt, or whatever does it for you, and send it to Eric Bye, the editor of Muzzle Blasts for possible publication. He sent back one article of mine, and asked me to write a new article taking a different direction, but in general, he has been happy to accept and publish what I have sent. If you think the magazine doesn't publish enough articles on the subjects you care about, its because more of us don't write the articles. Kind of a self fulfilling prophesy, no?

 

[Runner]

The truth is plain to see. If you don't use the range, or compete in the silly so called state championships, then good riddance to a bad smell. If you live close enough to use the range then being a member might be worth it. If you insist on going to Indianna to shoot with a very small fraction of muzzleloaders, then it might be worth it. If you will attend a gathering where the abominations are allowed, then it might be worth it.
If you want to shoot with the best there are, they are not at the NMLRA shoots. They will not attend those shoots because they will not go to a gathering that allows abominations on the line for any reason, in any match.
Many local clubs get a break on insurance by being members of the NMLRA or the NRA. If not for that, the NMLRA would have very few members left at all. Here, if you ask the people at club sponsered events where and when the NMLRA state championship is held in our state, the answer will confise you if you think the NMLRA is something worth saving. Most, including long time members, don't even know there is such a match. They don't advertise on this side of the state at all. They do not want the best at the match. They schedule it on the same weekend as the territorials so that anyone that can shoot and is into the NMLRA will be busy elsewhere that weekend. The leadership here is a mirror of the national leadership.
I will honor them with my money when they honor their own mission statement. Until then, they get the same respect Bill Clinton gets. If he fell down on fire and I had to pee, I would be annoyed at having to wait!

 

[Greenmtnboy]

I'll continue my membership for a number of reasons. The main concern that I have is that I don't have faith that the NRA won't make unfortunate deals to save other things. Suppose that there is pending legislation that goes after certain ammo, powder types, jacketed bullets, (add your own item.)

I don't think that the mere existence of an organization is enough to promote political change. I believe you also have to have the funds and the organizational structure to make things happen.

I wasn't aware that the NMLRA did any political lobbying or had the funds to do so? Am I mistaken? (I'm not saying they don't, I'm only asking)

There are a lot of "clubs" out there, but they have no political power.

I agree, and what would they lobby anyway they are as pro inlines as Toby Bridges, I am a member and prabably stay one for a wile anyway even tho their traditional articals are a bit lacking compaired to Muzzleloader. Mike Nibbits and Mark Bakker I feel are a more fun read, but I do enjoy the bevel brothers,My girl friend thinks they look cute in their chunk gun overalls, She even got me a pair to wear at our local shoots, Now I look like a total hillbilly
:rotf:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Runner: Have you written your complaints about how the Missouri State Shoots are scheduled to the Officers and Directors of the NMLRA? Why do you presume that with all the things they do as VOLUNTEERS, that they know about these conflicts in shooting schedules, much less the fact that the events are not well advertised within the state. Most of the advertising I see for the Territorial Shoots here in Illinois are published strictly in Muzzle Blasts. I don't know of any advertising within the state by the organizers. Since we don't have a State Muzzle Loading Rifle Association, and we don't have a very effective State Rifle Association, very few shooters can be contacted by in-state advertising. Just how would you go about advertising these matches in Missouri to reach more shooters? I am sure that any ideas about reaching more shooters would be welcome by all the officers and directors, and members of the NMLRA.

 

[nchawkeye]

I've been a member since the mid 70s...Nope they ain't perfect...But they are the best we have...They also have some good info that I use when giving presentations...Remember when Gussler laid claim to a rifle that Shumaker had been giving credit to a PA, now Gussler believes it was actually a NC rifle...Just this months issue discusses the alcohol/Murphys Oil Soap and Peroxide cleaner that had been discussed in MB years ago...

 

[Packdog]

If you will attend a gathering where the abominations are allowed, then it might be worth it.

They will not attend those shoots because they will not go to a gathering that allows abominations on the line for any reason, in any match.

Runner,
I have already stated I'm not a competitive shooter and relatively speaking a new member so before anyones gets defensive I'm really trying to understand your comments as well as other negs about the organization.
:surrender:
What are the abominations you refer to on the line?
What other organization would you or anyone else suggest one belong to that supports our sport at a National level?
Why has the State and National leadership not been voted out if their veiws are not reflective of membership?
Respectfully,
Ken

 

[Runner]

I am not the person to discuss fixing the NMLRA with. That was not your question. You asked if it was worth it re-upping. I said NO! Beyond that, as a non-member, I don't care.
I don't shoot with or around inlines except when people use them during the muzzleloader season, or for hunting around me. I surely would not be a member of the host of such shoots. Since I am way out in left field on this issue, you are better off asking that second question of folks that want to save the NMLRA. I think it has been dead for years already! They just stuck around long enough to kill the book also!.

 

[ronrryan]

I say YES. A pal of mine got irritated with The NRA (constant solicitation, etc) so I said to him: "So who represents you? When they come to take your Browning pistol away, who will you blame?" There are times when the NRA stinks but who else steps up? Same thing for NMLRA, they may be the amateur nite outfit, but they're the ONLY outfit. Its like picking Presidential candidates, hold yer nose. Good smoke, ron in FL

 

There are times when the NRA stinks but who else steps up? Same thing for NMLRA, they may be the amateur nite outfit, but they're the ONLY outfit.

I agree about the NRA, but the NMLRA has no lobby power and from what I can tell, they don't "step up" for anything. They are a club. A large club, but just a club none the less. Several local clubs could be joined together to outnumber the NMLRA, but that still doesn't give them LOBBY POWER. It takes more than having members to "represent" the members of a sport.

And for peple who live across the country, $40 a year is a lot for just a magazine.

2 cents worth, take it for what it's worth. :v

 

[flintlock50]

There are plenty of flintlock shooters at Friendship who will match their skills with anyone! That is what National Matches are and they DO ATTRACT THE BEST!

 

[Bill/Ms.]

I was a member of the NMLRA for thirty years or so and did not renew my membership a couple of years ago because I did not feel we were on the same page. The Territorial program was a good program for a long time, but as far as I'm concerned it was compromised and prostituted when the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle aggregate was added. I have no objection to anyone shooting BPCR, but I do object to The NMLRA including them in the Territorial program. Does noone else object to this? When you read the NMLRA mission statement and platform, you have to wonder where the BPCRs fit in.
Be Well
Bill R.

 

[Larry Pletcher]

How does this sound?

I shoot only matchlocks. They let wheellocks in this year so I'm quiting.

I shoot wheellocks. They let flintlocks in. They'll never get my money again.

I love flintlocks. I sw them sell percussion caps this year. I'll never go back there again.

You can always find something wrong with any organization. But the only way to change it is from the inside.

BTW when our club ran the Territorial we had final say about which aggs we ran. I sat in on the decision making process.

Regards,
Pletch

 

[faw3]

To PAWBILL and eveyone else, I'll stay with the NRA. And Im renewd for a last year with NMLRA. BUT when black powder was about to yanked from us it was a cannon makeing outfitt that showed up and won the day not the NMLRA, and I dont know what happened in 2000, I do know that people Ive known 20 yrs or so JUMPED out, so much for the best flintlock shooters in the world shooting at Friendship 1/2 of them cant shoot because they wont back something they saw go from maybe smaller but great go to sh... Again all I can do is say what I was told, and I do trust and belive these people, I'll try and find that letter I got from then Prez I got and put some of it on here, when the Prez of the thing tells you "I'm leaveing to and agree with you except I shoot just flintlocks" SOMETHING IS WRONG! Change it fromthe inside ..how? Did anyone here vote for the BPCR??? HUH? (understand I have no problem with them useing it when its not being used I used to shoot those till the NRA took over(thats another story and if you didnt shoot it yrs before you wouldnt understand - it was a hell of a lot more fun, lot more people and you could shoot for under a 1000 bucks now it cost 3000 just for a NRA legal rifle) Man am I running on or what.....yeh send 10 bucks in and get a Longhunters pin for shooting a tweety bird or whatever, get someone new to join and you get to reup for 25 not 40, it dont matter to me , Ive found a ML club here that if you belng to the NRA you can use the range anytime. I hope the 3 states around IND can support the NMLRA cause in a few yrs thats about all youll have, I saw a list in MB a few nights ago showing members in each state Texas about 150 to 175, I KNOW that many that shoot them just within 20 miles of me, OK OK :surrender: FOR ME its the LONGHUNTER thing, all in-lines, and if you missed it chk Journal for the last year, the NMLRA said we RB shooters are all but about dead that ws in MB. And except for guys like us NMLRA members or not we are going down, in a few years youll have to build your own or spend a 1000 or more,so as the PREZ said in MB in DEC if we could just get 1% of the 3.6 million hunters it would be 36,000 new members -he didnt say they will be shooting in-lines. :rotf: Do what ya want, I love ya all member or not. Fred :hatsoff:

 

well for me I am still undecided on what i am going to be doing in referencd to this topic. I called and talked to joyce and roberta and did'nt get a warm fuzzy from either. it kind of bothers me that they have no problems with veering away from their own mission statement. I am by no means against modern muzzleloaders in the least but i do think they have their place and it is not with traditional firearms. i do like the training that is available to members and since i am a scout leader i would love to be able to participate in this training and dessimenate it to the youngsters. At the same time i think that by supproting this organization it is condoning what they are doing, which as i previously stated i dont agree with. well i guess this is a decision we all have to make for ourselves. sorry for the long post i kind of started typing my thoughts :redface:.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I was not asked about including BPCR, but if I was, I would have said " Yes, -- NO, HELL, YES! " for this reason.

I am tired of all the shooting organizations out there one has to belong to in order to qualify to shoot their matches. In Shotgunning, we have the Amateur Trap Assocation, the ASA, for skeet shooters, and now the US Sporting Clays Assocation. I belonged to the ATA for a couple of years and then stopped going to registered shoots. In pistol shooting, you have the NRA, of course, but also IPSC, IDPA, Metallic Handgun Silhouette Shooting Associations, NRA Action Pistol, and half a dozen more. All have Presidents, directors, newsletter editors, and membership fees. We have about 15-20 separate clubs working to improve the lot of various game species, from the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundations to Ducks Unlimited. All want a piece of my wallet.
And in Rifle shooting, we have the NRA, the NMLRA, BPCR Association, The .50 caliber club, and more and more. When the NMLRA had a chance to bring Black powder cartridge shooting into the organizations overview, I was thrilled. For once, the shooting sports were working together, and not against each other.

The one thing we have too much of is organizations in this sport. It wastes money, and drives potential members to distraction. So, people don't join. The NRA should have been an umbrella organization all along, but it chose to play range snob, and wanted nothing to do with black powder rifles shotguns and pistols. At that time, the NRA was pretty well controlled by a clicque of men who shot together at Camp Perry, Ohio. They wanted nothing to do with shotguns, really didn't want much to do with pistols, except for the military training, and certainly didn't want to accomodate MLs or BPCR shooters. So, the splintering of assocations of gun owners began. I do blame the NRA of long ago for this misstep. But, the NRA had the opportunity to negotiate for inclusion of the Metallic Silouette pistol and rifle matches under its umbrella not that long ago, and instead came up with a competing " Action Pistol " course. It satisfied no one, and its only claim was it could be shot on existing ranges where distances were measured in yards, and not meters.

I have not voted for a Camp Perry shooter for the Board of Directos of the NRA since.

So, I welcome the BPCR shooters to the NMLRA. I think the organization's support has helped that sport grow, and has lead to the production of accurate reproduction of those old cartridge guns, so that replacement parts are again available to repair original rifles. The quality of marksmanship that we see on ranges today is getting better because people ar attracted to shooting " the gun that Quigley shot ". Bullseye shooting for high power rifle was a dying sport, slowly being limited to fewer shooters, as old timers died, and local ranges closed their long yardage ranges. In my home state of Illinois, we were fortunate that some property came available next to the ISRA state range near Kankakee, and the association purchased it, and has extended its high power range onto that property. We still don't have a 600 yard range there, but We doubled the length of the existing range. As close as it is to the Chicago metropolitan area, it has allowed the association to increase the number of High power rifle shooters, and the quality of scores has risen accordingly.

I only wish that the NMLRA was big enough to have the money to purchase land for range complexes all over the country, so that it could provide a place to shoot, and to learn to shoot black powder firearms safely, and correctly, for the American people. That is how we can keep our heritage alive in this next century.

 

[faw3]

I think we kind of agree about BPCR then, here in Texas we have a hand full of 1000 yd ranges :rotf: (about every good size rancher has.) back in 1980s I could buy a Rem rollingblock for 100 bucks, and twice a month (even in winter we would cut down a old tree about 60'long and fire it up for heat)have a great time with 30 to 40 other shooters , didnt cost nothing but what you spent to shoot and kick in 5 bucks for the coffee.And we all had a great time. BUT once again things are going on and members seem to have no controll over it at all. I havent shot clays in a bunch of years, at least 10 yrs before I ended up in the wheelchair 12 yrs?13 yrs back, but know what you mean ,someone bought a old range here and you just about have to be "GOD" to shoot in this clay only place. :grin: Fred :hatsoff:

 

How does this sound?

I shoot only matchlocks. They let wheellocks in this year so I'm quiting.

If you were told it was a "matchlock only" club when you paid your money, you are due a refund.

I shoot wheellocks. They let flintlocks in. They'll never get my money again.

Same here. If you were told it was a "wheellock only" club when you paid your money, you are due a refund.

When people read an organizations "mission statement" they should expect the organization to adhere to it. Having to fight ("from within") to make an organization keep it's word is not something many people have the time or desire to do.

If I join a Corvette club and they decide to let Hondas in, don't tell me to change it from within, just give me my money back. I'll vote with my feet.