no aqua fortis

[eggwelder]

what other options are there to aqua fortis? it is not easily accessible in Canada, unless i`m misinformed. and i could be. i`m looking for something to make the flame in flame birch pop, much the same way that aqua fortis makes the curl pop in curly maple...
any advice?

 

[Capt. Jas.]

See if you can get ferric nitrate crystals

 

[Paul R]

Go to a stained-glass shop & buy a bottle of 'black patina for lead solder'. Pour part of it into a small glass jar & add some of the rusty-est iron you can find. Set the lid on it, but do not tighten. After a while you should see bubbles forming on the iron. Use proper caution with the fumes & leave it in a safe place for a couple days.
After it stops bubbling, pour off the liquid into another glass jar & filter it through a coffee filter or allow it to settle.
Test the solution on some scrap maple & go through the steps of completing the finish for practice before committing to your stock.
Paul

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Order ferric nitrate chrystals from the Science Company (www.sciencecompany.com). Dissolve enough chrystals in distilled water until the solution is the color of weak tea and use that like aqua fortis. No need to ever fool with aqua fortis, nitric acid, or vinegar stains again.

dave

 

[Gustavo Hoefs]

Does it make maple black ? .

 

[Gustavo Hoefs]

Study up on the what , where, when , how + consequences Aqua Fortis is a strong acid mixture.

When I ask these types of questions you are asking I use as much common sense as I can plus safety protocols ( eye, and skin protection + ventilation ) and I experiment and try different things and consider the results. ....Some use vinegar with steel dissolved into it .
I have tried other types of acid diluted down BUT pour the acid INTO the water or else it will cause a violent reaction done the other way around. I would think a 24% solution would be fine others may weigh in and tell me I'm full of it. Best to try it out on scrap pieces of wood first

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Yup, what they said, ferric nitrate crystals mail ordered to your door, I cannot tell the difference between the crystals and aqua fortis.

There are many that tout the use of denatured alcohol with ferric nitrate crystals instead of distilled water as a way to help lessen the grain raising related to the use of the water made solution. I personally have not tried the alcohol.

I still keep and use ferric acetate ( vinegar stain ) for my leather work.

 

[Paul R]

The 'black patina' is an acid solution that will turn the lead came, used in stained glass work, to a nice black. I don't know exactly what the chemical make up is, but I do know that if you use it as I suggested, it gives excellent results as a stain on maple stocks. It is a cheap, easy way to acquire 'aqua fortis'. As with any acid 'stain' there is a bit of a learning curve & it may be difficult to get a repeatable colour unless you also add a spirit stain to your finishing regimen.
Paul

 

[Zonie]

Since you asked for other staining methods that will "make the flame in flame birch pop" apply a coat of lye water to the wood to develop the contrast between the stripes and then use a alcohol based stain or stains to get the color you want.

I describe the lye water treatment in this post:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/31269/post/31407/fromsearch/1/#31407

For the stain I have used both Birchwood Casey Walnut and Colonial Brown or Behlen Solar-Lux alcohol based stain. (Unfortunately, the Colonial Brown is no longer available.)

With the stains I usually thin the solution a bit and then apply several coats, often using several different colors.
For example, 2 to 3 coats of Walnut combined with one coat of Mahogany produces a very nice dark red finish.

Remember if you use a water based or alcohol based stain, the color of the stained wood when it is dried will be much lighter than it actually will be once the finishing oil is applied.
The real color and darkness can be examined by lightly wetting the wood with water before you apply any of the oil finishes.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Technically aqua-fortis is not stain

 

[eggwelder]

thanks for all the input, all of these seem viable. I think I`ll be needing to do up some experimentation pieces. I`ll post the results with the process included when I get to that part.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

This was a really good thread on Aqua-fortis, many very knowledgeable builders responded and the pictures are still there.


I would stay with aqua-fortis/ferric nitrate due to it's far superior wood coloring aspects. Stains of all kinds will really only muddy up the chatoyance of the grain.

Look into posts by Stophel on the subject.

 

[Zonie]

IMO, there is no muddying up of the grain when using stains if a quality stain is used.

All of these rifles were treated with lye water and then stained using a alcohol based stain.



The slightly "muddy" rifle on the left looks "muddy" because it has a less glossy finish than the other rifles shown.

Satin finishes tend to reduce the fine detail and crispness of the woods grain while a gloss finish allows the detail to stand proud for all to see.

Getting back to Aqua Fortis, IMO, one of its weaknesses is you have no control or idea of what it will produce on the stock.

Each piece of wood will react differently to AF and the resulting color on two seemingly identical pieces of wood may be the same or it may be vastly different.

With staining with a quality alcohol stain "you" are in control to achieve exactly what you want.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

What we know is that aqua-fortis when applied and heated has a chemical reaction with the tannins in the wood, this causes the change of color.

With the application of a stain, any stain, you are adding pigment to the pours (filling the grain) of the wood to change the color, hence the term "muddying the grain"

I have no problems letting the wood decide what color is lurking beneath the surface.

 

[kodiakmarine]

Jim, that is the best "encapsulated" commentary on staining I have read yet. I have not yet made a rifle but I have refinished a number of them. I have always used alcohol based stains and would not use anything else. Your guns look great. What do you use for your gloss finish? - John

 

[Paul R]

You are correct that pigment particles in most common stains do fill the pores of the wood, giving it colour. Maple has almost zero pores, so is very difficult to colour by using pigment stains. The spirit stains or NGR stains that Jim mentions are dye stains. The colour in spirit stains are totally dissolved in the alcohol & are able to penetrate into the wood. The stain is difficult to control & is usually diluted & applied in several coats, working up to the desired colour, including using different colours of stain for the desired result.
Paul

 

[Black Hand]

What we know is that aqua-fortis when applied and heated has a chemical reaction with the tannins in the wood, this causes the change of color.

I have no problems letting the wood decide what color is lurking beneath the surface.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[faste350]

I can bring you some up in september

 

[Larry Akers]

I have never been in favor of using acid on a stock but I love the color aqua fortis imparts. I duplicate that color by staining the stock with Homer Dangler dark brown stain then after it has dried I rub it back with either steel wool or coarse burlap. Then I apply LMF maple stain and allow it to dry. It very closely approximates the color of aqua fortis and inhances the grain but without the acid.

 

[eggwelder]

what dates are you coming up?