No Bang on 1st Strike.

[BallsOnFire]

I haven’t had a misfire in a very long time. (Remington 10’s) are all I use. The caps must fit. Either by accident or design and it’s not dif to do. If I can do it, so can you. I don’t shoot around other people very often, mostly in my backyard, but I’d be ashamed to resort to some of these measures in public. Samuel Colt designed these guns as reliable instruments to be counted on in the most dire of circumstances... one would think that after 150 years of progress we could get this right.

Work on the cones. There’s no need for calloused thumbs, pencils, dowel rods or Deer antlers. Your chosen cap should slip right on and be snuggly seated wit light thumb pressure. Fitted thus they don’t fall off and they fire first time every time.

Yes, that is what I decided to try first before buying different nips and not knowing whst size to get. Using ideas gleaned here I have put a piece of vinyl tubing over the threads, put in my cordless drill and am lathing with a square file. So far this is very slow going with no progress so far. Cone is apparently made out of kryptonite or titanium. #11 caps fir loose, just spin around on cone. #10 will go down on cone a little ways and then jam tite but could/should still go down another 1/16th to 1/8th inch. Thanks.

 

[BallsOnFire]

By the way I am using the only caps I could fi d which are CCI #10 and #11. I would like to try Remingtons but can't fi d them.

 

[wb78963]

I haven’t had a misfire in a very long time. (Remington 10’s) are all I use. The caps must fit. Either by accident or design and it’s not dif to do. If I can do it, so can you. I don’t shoot around other people very often, mostly in my backyard, but I’d be ashamed to resort to some of these measures in public. Samuel Colt designed these guns as reliable instruments to be counted on in the most dire of circumstances... one would think that after 150 years of progress we could get this right.

Woodbow,
Remember this, we are re-inventing a 150 year old wheel. All the people that knew how to make these antiques run reliably when they were cutting edge technology are long gone and did not write down instructions.
So now we learn by our experience or the experience of others.
Like this forum usually. But Slixshot nipples, a cap guard and Remington #10 caps have proven to give me suppository gun like (sorry Zonie)r reliability in a pair of Uberti 1860 Army revolvers.
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[user 33697]

I've had a similar problem with both my Uberti 1858 and 1860 revolvers with #10 caps. I bought a set of SliXshot nipples meant for #10 caps and the problem was solved. I've never had a misfire since with the SliXshot nipples. My Ruger Old Army has a set of SliXshot nipples and I just bought a set for my Pietta 1851.

 

[Bad Karma]

Yes, that is what I decided to try first before buying different nips and not knowing whst size to get. Using ideas gleaned here I have put a piece of vinyl tubing over the threads, put in my cordless drill and am lathing with a square file. So far this is very slow going with no progress so far. Cone is apparently made out of kryptonite or titanium. #11 caps fir loose, just spin around on cone. #10 will go down on cone a little ways and then jam tite but could/should still go down another 1/16th to 1/8th inch. Thanks.

Stick with it and you’ll get there. It’s ironic that the Italian makers are accused of using the cheapest metals in manufacturing these guns but apparently they’re not skimping on nipple steel! ;-) I have a set that came stock in a second generation Colt. I’ve been shooting it for 40 years and the nipples are in fine condition. They fit the Remington 10’s right out of the box, proving again, it’s better to be lucky than good...

 

[Bad Karma]

Woodbow,
Remember this, we are re-inventing a 150 year old wheel. All the people that knew how to make these antiques run reliably when they were cutting edge technology are long gone and did not write down instructions.
So now we learn by our experience or the experience of others.
Like this forum usually. But Slixshot nipples, a cap guard and Remington #10 caps have proven to give me suppository gun like (sorry Zonie)r reliability in a pair of Uberti 1860 Army revolvers.
Respectfully
Bunk

The cowboy action shooters have certainly been a boon in that regard.

 

[wb78963]

#10 caps always require two hits on at least a few cylinders, no matter what the gun. See if you can find some RWS caps. They are way better. I haven't seen #11s available at all for a while, but someone posted a link earlier this week for RWS.

#10 whats? There are no standards for percussion caps and Remington, CCI, and RWS all have ideas about cap sizes. A #11 CCI is about the same size as a Remington #10 and a Remington #11 is a mini skirt version of the #10. Same size shorter length. A #10 CCI is smaller that everything. The why of all this eludes me. Then there are RWS 1075 which are a different size all together. I am presently in he process of trying to find a nipple that fits RWS1075 because I have a load of them (not for sale) to use up. When I find the answer it will be posted here.
Second strikes do not bother me at all that is just DRY FIRING with an occasional bang to keep you on your toes.
I have ground down some nipples to fit and found they are harder than a pawn brokers heart .
Hang in there
Hit Center
Bunk

 

[BallsOnFire]

I've had a similar problem with both my Uberti 1858 and 1860 revolvers with #10 caps. I bought a set of SliXshot nipples meant for #10 caps and the problem was solved. I've never had a misfire since with the SliXshot nipples. My Ruger Old Army has a set of SliXshot nipples and I just bought a set for my Pietta 1851.

I failed to mention in my original post that I had installed Slixshot nips on one of my Ubertis, the 5" 1858. I left the original nips on my 8" 1858. The #10 CCI caps do not fit, they barely start onto the nip. The #11 will fit down onto the nip but still not enough to fire with the first strike but will on the second strike. So it is a bummer that unlike the many positive comments I see about Slixshots I find them no different than the Uberti originals when it comes to fit with CCI caps. What brand caps are you using? Any ideas on where I can buy caps of any brand? I found the CCI's that I have in a tiny little gun shop in a tiny little mountain town about 50 miles away from where I live.

 

[wb78963]

Slixshot cones are engineered to work with Remington #10 caps. From hard experience and a lot of reference to the Deity and water retention structures I can guarantee you that Slixshot cones work 100% with Remmy#10 caps, pretty well with Remmy #11 caps and just so-so with CCI#11 caps and not at all with anything else.
Those are the hard cold facts which hurts because there are a lot of RWS 1075 caps in the locker and I am still trying to find a cone they will fit properly.
Furthermore factory cones are hard as a bankers heart (bankers who read this excepted) a file will hardly touch them. A fine cut stone in a Dremel tool VERY CAREFULLY used will work but be careful.
This cap shortage is a PITA and matching available caps and cones it a try and try again process.

CAVEAT!! A CCI #10 cap is NOT the same as a Remington #10 cap. A Remington #11 cap is the same size as the Remmy #10 but shorter. The CCI#10 is smaller.
So when you talk about cap numbers link the number to the maker.
Is every body confused now?
Good Luck
Stay safe
Bunk

 

[BallsOnFire]

Slixshot cones are engineered to work with Remington #10 caps. From hard experience and a lot of reference to the Deity and water retention structures I can guarantee you that Slixshot cones work 100% with Remmy#10 caps, pretty well with Remmy #11 caps and just so-so with CCI#11 caps and not at all with anything else.
Those are the hard cold facts which hurts because there are a lot of RWS 1075 caps in the locker and I am still trying to find a cone they will fit properly.
Furthermore factory cones are hard as a bankers heart (bankers who read this excepted) a file will hardly touch them. A fine cut stone in a Dremel tool VERY CAREFULLY used will work but be careful.
This cap shortage is a PITA and matching available caps and cones it a try and try again process.

CAVEAT!! A CCI #10 cap is NOT the same as a Remington #10 cap. A Remington #11 cap is the same size as the Remmy #10 but shorter. The CCI#10 is smaller.
So when you talk about cap numbers link the number to the maker.
Is every body confused now?
Good Luck
Stay safe
Bunk

Before seeing your post I must have received your Dremel thoughts via telepathy because earlier this AM I decided to use my Dremel. I considered using a stone bit VS a cutting wheel. I chose the cutting wheel. Wow, as expected that cutting wheel got sparks-a-flyin(my files got nowhere). So, of course, I went a few sparks too far apparently because now a #10 CCI cap spins freely around the cone just like the #11 CCI's. However a little pinch of the cap skirt makes it fit down and tight and it fired with first strike, yippeeee! I put a #10 CCI on an un-Dremeled nip as far down on the cone as my fat thumb could make it and as usual no bang on the first strike but ka-pow on the 2nd strike. So, perhaps not the ideal cone fit but I'd much rather give the #10 cap a little pinch than have to hammer it down. I will continue with the Dremel on the remaining cones and also try my stone bits for comparison with the cutting wheel. Thanks.

PS For comparison testing sure wish I could find Remington caps and other than CCI brand caps in stock somewhere.

 

[wb78963]

Just in from the range!
The load used is 20 grains of Du Pont FFFg (some new old stock) Beliveau style 1/8" lube wad and a .451" ball seated to just touch the wad with slight compression.
The gun is a Pietta 1851 Navy snubby in .44 caliber fitted with a cap guard, ( or post) a Lee's Gunfighter main spring, and Slixshot nipples.
Out of ten shots (two cylinders five each) randomly loaded and with the caps seated as firmly as possible using that brass loading tool I experienced four misfires, two out of five in each, and all fired on the second strike.
In the past CCI# 11 caps worked with only an occasional problem of a water table jam where the cap stayed on long enough to wedge in the cap well at the water table, so due to time constraint this afternoon only the RWS caps were tried. The CCI #11 caps and more RWS 1075 caps will be tried in the morning weather permitting.
This occasional misfire somewhat annoying, but my RWS stock of caps is big and I am just shooting a plate rack or steel shapes for fun and it checks for any flinch I might develop.
More to follow
Bunk.

 

[BallsOnFire]

Just in from the range!
The load used is 20 grains of Du Pont FFFg (some new old stock) Beliveau style 1/8" lube wad and a .451" ball seated to just touch the wad with slight compression.
The gun is a Pietta 1851 Navy snubby in .44 caliber fitted with a cap guard, ( or post) a Lee's Gunfighter main spring, and Slixshot nipples.
Out of ten shots (two cylinders five each) randomly loaded and with the caps seated as firmly as possible using that brass loading tool I experienced four misfires, two out of five in each, and all fired on the second strike.
In the past CCI# 11 caps worked with only an occasional problem of a water table jam where the cap stayed on long enough to wedge in the cap well at the water table, so due to time constraint this afternoon only the RWS caps were tried. The CCI #11 caps and more RWS 1075 caps will be tried in the morning weather permitting.
This occasional misfire somewhat annoying, but my RWS stock of caps is big and I am just shooting a plate rack or steel shapes for fun and it checks for any flinch I might develop.
More to follow
Bunk.

"lube wad", what? I admitted to using lubed wads and someone earlier in this thread said I was going to contaminate my powder. I use lubed wads because I watched about 50 Youtube.com videos that recommended lubed wads between powder and ball. Glad to see someone else is as stupid and/or misinformed as I am.

 

[Grenadier1758]

When you are at the range, a lubed wad is unlikely to contaminate the powder as the revolver is shot soon after loading. Its more of an issue if the revolver is to be carried for a while as a back up when hunting.

 

[wb78963]

"lube wad", what? I admitted to using lubed wads and someone earlier in this thread said I was going to contaminate my powder. I use lubed wads because I watched about 50 Youtube.com videos that recommended lubed wads between powder and ball. Glad to see someone else is as stupid and/or misinformed as I am.

We are getting off topic, here, but loading is part of the process. There are two schools of thought on lubricant.
The first is smear lubricant on top of the ball at the chamber mouth. Most of which is blown away by the gas that escaped from the barrel-cylinder gap on the first or second shot which does a great job of making a mess but nothing for softening the fouling.
The other is to use a fiber, usually felt, wad soaked in lubricant.between the ball and powder. The idea is the heat of combustion vaporizes the lubricant. in the wad and mixes with the fouling which keeps it soft.
Personally I do not use any sort of oil in my lube mix. It is 50:50 by weight either beef tallow or lard and either beeswax of canning wax. For that mix to contaminate the powder would mean the loaded chamber would need to be heated to the melting point of the mix which is very very hot so don't worry.
Sorry about getting off track, but it needed, in my estimation, to be said
Keep on shooting
Bunk

 

[Bad Karma]

Before seeing your post I must have received your Dremel thoughts via telepathy because earlier this AM I decided to use my Dremel. I considered using a stone bit VS a cutting wheel. I chose the cutting wheel. Wow, as expected that cutting wheel got sparks-a-flyin(my files got nowhere). So, of course, I went a few sparks too far apparently because now a #10 CCI cap spins freely around the cone just like the #11 CCI's. However a little pinch of the cap skirt makes it fit down and tight and it fired with first strike, yippeeee! I put a #10 CCI on an un-Dremeled nip as far down on the cone as my fat thumb could make it and as usual no bang on the first strike but ka-pow on the 2nd strike. So, perhaps not the ideal cone fit but I'd much rather give the #10 cap a little pinch than have to hammer it down. I will continue with the Dremel on the remaining cones and also try my stone bits for comparison with the cutting wheel. Thanks.

PS For comparison testing sure wish I could find Remington caps and other than CCI brand caps in stock somewhere.

Wrt the dremel... go gently and measure often and you’ll be fine.

 

[wb78963]

Just in from the range!
The load used is 20 grains of Du Pont FFFg (some new old stock) Beliveau style 1/8" lube wad and a .451" ball seated to just touch the wad with slight compression.
The gun is a Pietta 1851 Navy snubby in .44 caliber fitted with a cap guard, ( or post) a Lee's Gunfighter main spring, and Slixshot nipples.
Out of ten shots (two cylinders five each) randomly loaded and with the caps seated as firmly as possible using that brass loading tool I experienced four misfires, two out of five in each, and all fired on the second strike.
In the past CCI# 11 caps worked with only an occasional problem of a water table jam where the cap stayed on long enough to wedge in the cap well at the water table, so due to time constraint this afternoon only the RWS caps were tried. The CCI #11 caps and more RWS 1075 caps will be tried in the morning weather permitting.
This occasional misfire somewhat annoying, but my RWS stock of caps is big and I am just shooting a plate rack or steel shapes for fun and it checks for any flinch I might develop.
More to follow
Bunk.

Today there was some luck with CCI#11 caps one loading had three out of five FTF but did fire on the second strike.
The next loading fired first strike five for five perhaps because that brass loading rod thing was used to push down real hard to seat the caps and this was capping fouled cones.
The RWS 1075 caps still remain problematic with a.Failure To Fire on the first strike remaining about 50% of the time no matter how hard the caps are seated However they fire 99% of the time on the second strike.. In all this there was only one FTF that required a third strike. and I am not sure the cap was down tight to begin with.
Take all this for what it is worth you may have different results this is with my guns, my loading techniques but it was fun.
Because all three guns used are set up the same way all three Pietta snubbies had about the same FTF rate for both kind of caps.
The saving grace is this was an excuse to burn up a lot of Du Pont FFFg powder and beat up on my steel targets. and only used 6 Remington #10 caps for comparison out of about 30 shots..
Fun day
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[BallsOnFire]

OP here. Time to seriously THANK everyone for your thoughts/experience. It has helped me a great deal, THANK YOU! I was on the verge of major regret for getting into black powder/cap and ball because I could not and still can't find percussion caps and powder online. However, thankfully, after traveling on my motorcycle way the heck up, 50 miles away, into the local mountains, I found a retired guy with a gun shop he has open 3 days a week for a few hours in the afternoon and then I scored 300 each CCI #10's and 11's and Pyrodex powder in pellet form. I paid very fair prices(6 bucks per 100 count tin), now I see he was apparently so out of touch and remote that he did not know how retailers are now ripping us off for about 10 times what the prices use to be, disgusting! Next time I go to his shop I will tip him double or triple the cost he charges me. Gold nuggets for fool's gold prices, sheesh, poor guy deserves a break.

Well, little did I know that there is no consistency between manufacturers on percussion cap sizing and fitment. Good grief! But thanks to you guys I am starting to understand the numerous variables involved in this hobby/sport/religion. I am beginning to understand the interest and fun and history, etc. in this endeavor. I never imagined how much fun it would be to wade through a swamp in order to figure out how make these guns go BANG. Very satisfying. I know, I'm not telling you anything you do not already know.

So, after Dremeling my Uberti nips/cones I can fit my #10 and #11 CCI caps and they go KA-BOOM on the first strike with a little pinch on their skirts. I removed my SlixShot nips and will hold them and the Treso nips that I ordered in reserve until I shoot lots more and have a better appreciation for the variables involved with the different nipples/cones, etc. So, THANKS again, Amigos'. I will be back with more questions, that's for sure.

 

[Tom A Hawk]

For what its worth, I lower the hammer under thumb control and press each cap to make sure they are seated.

And by the way...so much for the myth regarding cap detonation under thumb pressure.

 

[wb78963]

OP here. Time to seriously THANK everyone for your thoughts/experience. It has helped me a great deal, THANK YOU! I was on the verge of major regret for getting into black powder/cap and ball because I could not and still can't find percussion caps and powder online. However, thankfully, after traveling on my motorcycle way the heck up, 50 miles away, into the local mountains, I found a retired guy with a gun shop he has open 3 days a week for a few hours in the afternoon and then I scored 300 each CCI #10's and 11's and Pyrodex powder in pellet form. I paid very fair prices(6 bucks per 100 count tin), now I see he was apparently so out of touch and remote that he did not know how retailers are now ripping us off for about 10 times what the prices use to be, disgusting! Next time I go to his shop I will tip him double or triple the cost he charges me. Gold nuggets for fool's gold prices, sheesh, poor guy deserves a break.

Well, little did I know that there is no consistency between manufacturers on percussion cap sizing and fitment. Good grief! But thanks to you guys I am starting to understand the numerous variables involved in this hobby/sport/religion. I am beginning to understand the interest and fun and history, etc. in this endeavor. I never imagined how much fun it would be to wade through a swamp in order to figure out how make these guns go BANG. Very satisfying. I know, I'm not telling you anything you do not already know.

So, after Dremeling my Uberti nips/cones I can fit my #10 and #11 CCI caps and they go KA-BOOM on the first strike with a little pinch on their skirts. I removed my SlixShot nips and will hold them and the Treso nips that I ordered in reserve until I shoot lots more and have a better appreciation for the variables involved with the different nipples/cones, etc. So, THANKS again, Amigos'. I will be back with more questions, that's for sure.

If you set the CCI#11's firmly on the Slixshot nipples you will get pretty consistent ignition (I think) because Pyrodex it is somewhat harder to ignite than Black Gunpowder.. I'm experimenting and have fair success with them with real Black Gunpowder. All I know about Pyrodex is to clean the gun thoroughly with WATER not solvent like Hoppe's#9 because the fouling os a bit more corrosive than Black gunpowder and the salts are nicely dissolved in warm water. Then dry and oil as usual.
Welcome to the wonderful, exciting, entertaining, aggravating, frustrating, fun .world of cap & ball guns.
Hold Center
Hit Center
Don't Look Surprised
Bunk

 

[Bad Karma]

For what its worth, I lower the hammer under thumb control and press each cap to make sure they are seated.

And by the way...so much for the myth regarding cap detonation under thumb pressure.

Except for the unfortunate one who posted pictures of his thumb split open as he was seating a cap... I want to say it was on the sass wire but it may have been another site. Anyway, it’s often too early to say “never”.