No spark from flintlock pistol

[ronnie_kennedy]

I purchased my model 1780 Flintlock sea service pistol online. The person said they had fired it once and it has been sitting ever since. Now although it is in good condition, i don't know how they fired the thing! I have tried 3 different flint sizes (all english flints from Track of the Wolf) and cannot get even the slightest spark from it.

The frizzen is pretty chewed up looking so do you think that could be the cause of it. It looks as though someone had the wrong size flint in it and it has been gouged? The best i can get from a flint that is fitted properly is the flint going about 1/4 way down the frizzen, the frizzen opening just slightly, and no spark. I have taken the lock apart, soaked it in ballistol/hot water, scrubbed it, made sure there were no burrs on moving parts, and checked all the springs. Does anyone know what In the world is going on with this thing?!?!? :surrender: I will post some pics of the lock so you can get a better idea of what i am talking about

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Who built it and what brand of lock does it have? Depending on your answers, possible choices may be:
1. Replace the frizzen
2. Harden the frizzen
3. Half-sole the frizzen
4. Hang the pistol on the wall and forget about it

 

[David W.]

From the description, it may be a soft frizzen. No wonder it was fired just once!

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Why do I smell curry? :stir:

 

[LRB]

With these guns, it could also be an over powered frizzen spring. Remove the spring and see what happens. Check the frizzen face with a file. It should not cut it. A light scratch maybe, but not a real bite. You might want to contact the company and ask them about your problem.

 

[Robert Egler]

Why do I smell curry? :stir:

:rotf:

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Who built it and what brand of lock does it have? Depending on your answers, possible choices may be:
1. Replace the frizzen
2. Harden the frizzen
3. Half-sole the frizzen
4. Hang the pistol on the wall and forget about it

Well the answer certainly won't be number 4 that's for sure. I paid 260 bucks for this gun and didn't do it to hang on a wall! I'll put a wick in the cock jaws and make it a matchlight before i hang it up. :haha: Anyways, the lock is a tower brand. Not sure about the maker of the pistol. I have bought a new frizzen from dixie gun works...it just needs to be drilled and polised. So my questions are:

1.How would i go about hardening the frizzen. Is this where you heat it up to red hot and then dunk it in oil? Seems like i read that somewhere :idunno:
2. With the half-sole, is this where you put a piece of metal on the face of the frizzen?
3. What would make the frizzen soft to begin with? Does it just happen over time? Trying to get some pics up now.

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Pic of the lock at with cock at half cock and the frizzen closed...looks like the right fit flint to me

After fully cocking and pulling the trigger. This is where the flint stops on the frizzen, and how far the frizzen opens up. Don't know if it matters, but there is no spark even up to this point.

Pic of the frizzen face. Pretty chewed up with some gouges in it. Do i need to grind and resurface it maybe?

Please help! It is killing me to have this gun, powder, and ball, and not be able to send this downrange! :cursing: :td:

 

[nhmoose]

Try turning the flint so the bevel is up and boy does that flint look long to me.

 

[David W.]

1.How would i go about hardening the frizzen. Is this where you heat it up to red hot and then dunk it in oil? Seems like i read that somewhere

Use Kasenit. Use MAPP gas, a propane torch will not get it hot enough. Follow the instructions on the can. I use salt water, not oil to quench the metal with. If you do use oil, go with transmission fluid.

[quote2. With the half-sole, is this where you put a piece of metal on the face of the frizzen?][/quote]

use a piece of band saw blade.

[quote3. What would make the frizzen soft to begin with? Does it just happen over time? Trying to get some pics up now.][/quote]

Improper heat treatment, and or cheap steel.

 

[David W.]

1.How would i go about hardening the frizzen. Is this where you heat it up to red hot and then dunk it in oil? Seems like i read that somewhere

Use Kasenit. Use MAPP gas, a propane torch will not get it hot enough. Follow the instructions on the can. I use salt water, not oil to quench the metal with. If you do use oil, go with transmission fluid.

After case hardening, you must temper the steel at it will be too brittle. Heat your oven to 500 deg and temper for one hour. Air cool the frizzen.

[quote2. With the half-sole, is this where you put a piece of metal on the face of the frizzen?]

[/quote]

use a piece of band saw blade and weld it to the frizzen.

[quote3. What would make the frizzen soft to begin with? Does it just happen over time? Trying to get some pics up now.]

[/quote]
Improper heat treatment, and or cheap steel.

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Try turning the flint so the bevel is up and boy does that flint look long to me.

Moose, i have turned it every which way but sideways! :haha:

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Thank you Flintlock...i need to order some things from track of the wolf or either dixie and i will add that to my order. Thanks!

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the geometry of the lock looks way off in those pictures.

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

With these guns, it could also be an over powered frizzen spring. Remove the spring and see what happens. Check the frizzen face with a file. It should not cut it. A light scratch maybe, but not a real bite. You might want to contact the company and ask them about your problem.

Just took the frizzen spring off Wick...same ol' same ol. Even cocked and fired in a dark room to see if i could get any kind of spark AT ALL...NOTHING!! :surrender:

 

[David W.]

One question, is the first pic on full cock, or half cock?

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

One question, is the first pic on full cock, or half cock?

Flint, the first pic is on half cock. I was told to put the gun on half cock, and if the flint comes within, 1/8" of the frizzen face, that is your maximum size. I also contacted Track Of The Wolf's website and this is one of the flints that they suggest. The other was a little bigger than this, and seemed a bit too long. This pic was with the flint "backwards" with the bevel down. I also tried the flipping the flint the other way with frizzen down, and turning it over with bevel up.

 

[pargent]

The flint is sitting to far foward in the jaws , try thining the leather wrap in its mid section to get the flint back . The hammer (frizen) does look to soft, clean up the surface and reharden it. That should get you going . :thumbsup:

 

[David W.]

With the leather folded, cut a "V" on the folded edge so the flint will go back to the turn screw. You may need to find thinner piece of leather, or take a ball or other soft piece of lead and hammer it out into a sheet.

 

[illuveatar]

It looks to me like the flint is coming into the frizzen at the wrong angle. The flint should contact the frizzen so that the metal is shaved off. From the picture you show it appears that the flint strikes perpendicular to the frizzen plate and just mashes stone to steel.

Try adjusting the contact angle to somewhere between 30 and 60 degrees (correct me if I'm wrong here guys).

Also try knapping your flint, strike the tip with a small hammer and it will sharpen the stone. This will help the stone to slice off frizzen steel which is what actually sparks. You may have to knap the flint in order to adjust the angle of impact anyway.

If the gun was really only fired once and all the rest of the gouges on the frizzen are from you I would guess that the frizzen is too soft and you should either replace it or try hardening it yourself. I heard someone mention recently that the Kasenit company went out of business, but it looks like Dixie Gun Works still has some in stock here
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=6465

I'm sure there are other products you could use to case harden a piece of metal.

Keep us posted.