No spark from flintlock pistol

[Many Klatch]

First you will need to smooth up the face of the frizzen with a grinder.

To harden a frizzen you want to really "soak" the steel with carbon. Use an acetylene torch. Heat to cherry red color don't heat enough to turn straw color. Put a teaspoon of Kasenite on the face of the frizzen. Let it sit and work until it stops bubbling, scrape it off and put on another spoon full. Do this for about 15 minutes. Drop the frizzen into a bucket of water.

You will need to anneal the frizzen just a bit after this so it isn't too hard. Do this by baking the frizzen in your stove at 325 for one hour. This is not how the instructions on the can of Kasenite tell you how to do it, but this is what works on flintlocks.

Many Klatch

 

[LRB]

Kasenit is not going to be a long term fix. It only goes in a few thousandths deep, and will soon wear away, and you'll have to repeat the process. First thing to do is to see if the frizzen is high carbon steel. In dim light, heat the frizzen to a red-orange and quench in warm cooking oil. File check for hardness. A file should NOT bite. If it does, repeat and quench in water. If the files bites/cuts after a water quench, it is not high carbon and you will need a different fix such as a half sole, or find someone who can pack harden it for you. I would look into the half sole. If you will only be shooting the gun occasionally, Kasenite might get you by, but it may only last a few hundred shots before you have to add more to it.

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Wow! Lots of helpful information from very knowledgeable people. This is why i joined this forum! So from what i see right now, i need to:

1. Adjust the flint so it is sitting right in the jaws

2. Either cut the leather i have, find a thinner piece, or flatten a ball to hold the flint

3. Harden the frizzen

Not a bad fix all in all. Sounds like something i can do right here at home. I will only be firing this gun occasionally...probably only a hundred or so shots a year. So if i have to do this hardening every year, it won't be a problem. Like i said though, i ordered another frizzen from Dixie already, i just have to drill the screw hole. I also heard of a guy wrapping his frizzen in leather scraps, putting it in a tin can, squeezing the rim of the tin can shut and folding it over itself, put it in a small fire for an hour, then taking it out and quenching it in water. Has anyone ever heard of this method too?

 

[LRB]

Just use Kasenit or a similar product. Much easier, amd it will acually work short term.

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Sorry, been away from this thread for awhile. Yes, all that the others have told you is correct for possible fixes. It appears what you have is a Tower pistol, aka Continental Army pistol, and a host of other names. These were made in Japan many years ago and parts are hard to find although you will occasionally find parts or even complete locks online at auction sites. As others have mentioned, it sure looks like a soft frizzen problem from the photos. When tinkering with flintlocks, you start at the easy fixes first; flint length, bevel up/bevel down, leather thickness, frizzen spring removal, etc. Kasenit will harden the frizzen face but as Wick stated, it doesn't penetrate very deeply but will give you a usable surface for awhile. Half soleing involves gring away more of the frizzen face and silver soldering on a piece of hardened steel. That is sort of the order of things that I'd try to fix the problem. Good luck, those big bore pistols are a lot of fun and I have one myself. FYI, the springs are prone to breakage too. Welcome to the world of tinkering!

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

I don't really mind tinkering with it. Makes me appreciate it more every time i shoot it. I will order the kasenite and harden the frizzen and pound me out a ball or cut the leather. Will update you guys on how it goes. I really appreciate all the help with this small problem. Hopefully one day i will be knowledgeable enough to help others as much as ya'll have helped me.

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Alright, 1st step done. Just pounded out one of my .451 balls and wrapped the flint with it.

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Built a homemade forge and heated the frizzen for about 45 minutes while in a can wrapped in leather. Tempering it at 300 degrees in the oven for an hour right now. Came out of the "forge" looking good. Nice metallic coating on the face of the frizzen and smooth too. All the gouges filled it. Carbon? I hope so!

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

welp, no such luck...after all was said and done, i got minimal spark from the frizzen and only after removing the frizzen spring. Zippo lighter flints make more spark than what i got. The face of the frizzen is starting to look the same again too, so maybe my little homemade forge didn't get hot enough? :surrender:

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

I'm curious:
What was your heat source for the forge? If the frizzen was in a can wrapped in leather, how did you judge when it was hot enough? Did you grind the face of the frizzen before heat treating or did the grooves just get filled in with carbon slag?

I would try an aceteline torch (maybe MAPP gas) and Kasenit. Smooth out the frizzen face first. After using Kasenit, you'll have to polish all the slag off of it again.

Make sure that you get it heated up to cherry red!

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Stomper, i just made a makeshift forge out back with some bricks and some nice kindling and logs. Put the can in, and left it in 45-50 minutes. Couldn't really judge the temp. Guess that is why is pays off to have the right tools. I didn't grind the face, but i did sand it with sandpaper to a smooth composition. It looks as though the slag did not go deep enough though, because the flint is scraping it off already. How can i know if it is cherry red in the can? Guess it'll be going to a professional or atleast someone with the right set-up...broke.my.heart!

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Yah, I just read your thread on hardening over in the Gun Building forum. I missed it before.

Since you're lacking in tools, are there any folks in a local muzzleloading club that you can cozy up to? My experience is that many folks who have been muzzleloading for years are more than willing to help out someone trying to get a start in the hobby. They often have the tools and the know-how and work free or at least just for a case of beer!

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

I wish there were a club or something i got get into in my area, but none that i know of. Just me and a buddy right now. He has been shooting modern blackpowder for hunting and his percussion revolver. He is the one that got me interested in the hobby, but we are both novices at flintlock shooting. We bought used ones at the same time to learn together. We have already talked a co-worker into getting himself a blackpowder handgun, and we are looking into starting a blackpowder shooting club, with our main focus being on pre-modern/inline type guns.

I have enjoyed this forum and found everyone to be very helpful in all my beginner questions. I was surprised at how many people have sent me messages willing to help with trying to find someone to help me with my lock mechanism problem. That being said, Wick Ellerbe is the one i have went with and mailed the items off this morning. Very reasonable rates and the utmost of a great help in dealing with flintlocks.

 

[caintuck rifle]

It will never work again just mail it to me.

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Sounds good Caintuck...send me your address :rotf: :rotf: Hoepfully it will be done soon. There is another member of the forum working on it right now.

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Wick Ellerbe is a miracle worker!! :bow: I sent my lock off to him and after tinkering with it, it seems he has got it sparking great. Said it shot sparks 8 inches to his shirt. I will soon be shooting my flintlock! Wick the fist shot is for you! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the geometry of the lock looks way off in those pictures.

You don't need to be corrected. Lots wrong there.
Wall hanger, IMHO.

 

[LRB]

It sparks very well now. The frizzen was not as hard as it should be, and the main spring was weak. I spread the spring a tad and re-heat treated it. I just re-hardened the frizzen. Did not need Kasenit, but yes, the geometry is off. The cock does not make a full length rake down the frizzen, although the frizzen does open fully. The flint stops about an 1/8" short of clearing the frizzen. I am also not sure if the pan is getting enough sparks, as they seem to concentrate a bit high over the pan. I believe cutting a gap in the front throat support, bending it to re-join, then welding it back together would cure that, but I don't weld. A longer flint may work better also. He will just have to try it out and see. It may be fine as is.

 

[ronnie_kennedy]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the geometry of the lock looks way off in those pictures.

You don't need to be corrected. Lots wrong there.
Wall hanger, IMHO.

Will never have a wall hanger...If i buy it, i fire it.

 

[Musketeer]

yes, the geometry is off. The cock does not make a full length rake down the frizzen, although the frizzen does open fully. The flint stops about an 1/8" short of clearing the frizzen. I am also not sure if the pan is getting enough sparks, as they seem to concentrate a bit high over the pan. I believe cutting a gap in the front throat support, bending it to re-join, then welding it back together would cure that

I've noticed that quite a bit in the India guns (I assume this is one too). I was fortunate with my MVTC Dragoon, in that it points the flint right at the pan in the forward-most position, but so many of them do not. It's too bad this one isn't of an easy to bend design and would require cutting and welding.

Ronnie, looking forward to hearing how she shoots when you get her back. :hatsoff: