Non-indian made flintlock

[DanChamberlain]

I have three Pedersoli muzzleloaders, none of which have a patent breech. My frontier has a drum/bolster system which can be converted in about 5 minutes to a flint lock, simply by removing the drum and screwing in a vent, and changing the lock. I have a SXS 12ga that has nipples aimed directly at the base of the powder charge with no dog leg turn, and finally, the flint trade musket which does not have a patent breech as far as I can see. The vent hole is at the base of the pan and the only thing that causes a misfire is a dulled flint. Every other time, it goes off if I have not neglected some aspect of appropriate loading/cleaning.

I have a Pedersoli Sharps as well. I won't own a gun that doesn't perform. Perhaps, I might enjoy a higher level of performance if I should try a custom piece and I'd know what I was missing, but my Pedersoli guns simply meet my needs. I trust them and they don't let me down. I'm sorry your 20 year old gun caused you to eschew all Pedersoli firearms from that day forward, but since it's the only one you own, I have to say your experience does not correlate with mine.

Regards

Dan

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I have three Pedersoli muzzleloaders, none of which have a patent breech. My frontier has a drum/bolster system which can be converted in about 5 minutes to a flint lock, simply by removing the drum and screwing in a vent, and changing the lock.

Has Pedersoli had changed the design at some point? My .32 Frontier does indeed have a patent breech, even though the touchhole is 5/8" ahead of the external edge of the breech plug, with a chamber diameter of ~.20". This is about the same as in my much older Kentucky .50 - on that one, my (late) gunsmith opened the chamber up to .30".

Regards,
Joel

 

[romeoh]

All my Pedersolis got that patent breech.
My Indian Trade, made this year from a kit also got it..

And nope, I don´t like it.
I agree that it can make sense on percussion. But not together with flinters.

 

[DanChamberlain]

Somehow, we have to clear up whatever confusion exists with the term "patent" breech. In my book - and I may be wrong - a patent breech is a breech plug in which the fire channel is patent with the breech, and not the barrel. If the hole is drilled into the barrel, forward of the breech plug, then it is not a patent breech. In rechecking, my SXS appears that it might have a patent breech. My frontier does not and my trade musket does not.

If my understanding of "patent" breech is in error, can someone please correct me?

Dan

 

[Jason Lewis]

dan- your understanding is correct

 

[Joel/Calgary]

In my book - and I may be wrong - a patent breech is a breech plug in which the fire channel is patent with the breech, and not the barrel. If the hole is drilled into the barrel, forward of the breech plug, then it is not a patent breech.

The critical thing with the "patent" part of it is that the touchhole communicates (one way or another) with a sub-caliber chamber rather than directly with the bore. The Pedersolis have a long section of breech plug containing this chamber threaded into the barrel. The touchhole goes through the barrel wall and the breech plug to connect with the bottom of the sub-caliber chamber.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Pigman]

What is the best way to field clean a patent breach?

 

[Jason Lewis]

use a copper brush with a cleaneing patch around it that fits the smaller sub chamber.

 

[Pigman]

That is what I have also done - at home.

Do you also do this at the range or on a woods walk?

 

[Joel/Calgary]

What is the best way to field clean a patent breach?

Depends, I guess. Mine have never crudded up enough to bother with until I was finished for the day, whereas my bore might or might not need periodic cleaning. If I needed to clean the chamber in the middle of shooting, it'd probably be with a dry brush and dump the powdered crud out. The touch-hole and any related caverns would probably get the usual vent pick and/or pipe cleaner.

When I'm done shooting, it's not much different from at home (except for a hooked breech that could be done in a bucket at home) - some variation on plug the touch-hole and soak, then slosh, dump, & repeat 'til the water (and/or alcohol) is reasonably clean. If I can, I prefer to finish this stage with a last plug-&-fill, keeping the firelock upright, and start my cleaning rod with a patch on the jag. After I unplug the touch-hole, I push the water out but with a pumping action so I alternate between squirting the water out and sucking some air in, to generate turbulence. A few points about this last step: It's a lot neater if you take the lock off first (I usually do to clean it, anyway); Hold the firelock at a slant with the barrel down and any "dribbles" will tend to drip off the breech plug or tang and miss the wood; It squirts a fair way, so mind where the touch-hole is pointed.

Then I dry the bore and the chamber, preferably using alcohol to draw the water from the breech before using patches. If the patches are still smudged, I'll use a few more until I have most of the graphite out. I usually start oiling with a few drops or a small squirt of oil (Ballistol preferrably) or an oil & alcohol emulsion in the touch hole, and hold it lock-side up then muzzle-down to get the oil through the patent breech and start draining excess into the bore, then finished with oiled patches in the bore and maybe chamber, especially if oiling the bore blows a bunch of oil out the touch-hole. I store them muzzle-down, at least for the next few days.

So far, this has worked for me.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Pigman]

I was thinking about just using a 20 gag brush to clean with and trying to force it into the patant breach. Or to use a smaller loop that would fit into the breach.

Foster From Flint

 

[Jason Lewis]

pig-
yes i do at the range and on a woods walk, in the field hunting is difficult to say the least.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I was thinking about just using a 20 gag brush to clean with and trying to force it into the patant breach. Or to use a smaller loop that would fit into the breach.

I don't think you'd get a .62" brush into a a .20" Pedersoli patent breech, or even a .30" one. The T-C ones are ~.35" IIRC. I forced a .50" brush into a .30" chamber and discovered that the bristles folded forward failed to touch most of the chamber. I use a proper size brush or a patch appropriately wrapped around the patch-holder on my .22 cleaning rod.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Pigman]

Is there anyone who has bored the patant breach out?

Foster From Flint

 

[Jason Lewis]

none that i am aware of, they are a real pain to remove.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Is there anyone who has bored the patant breach out?

As has been said, completely removing them may be problematic, depending on the complexity of the breeching - interlocking parts, exposed threads, etc., but some have been done. If it is doable, a smoothbore would be fairly straightforward, but what diameter would you take a rifle out to - bore diameter, groove diameter, or something else.

One can sometimes open up irritatingly-small ones somewhat. My (now deceased) gunsmith bored the one on my .50 Pedersoli Kentucky out to .30", and it became much less fussy in loading while still performing the services it was intended to. My 16ga has Manton-style breeching with chambers ~.35" that never EVER gave me any trouble. It works perfectly, and it loads and cleans easily as-is.

Regards,
Joel

 

[cpinkhaminsc]

There's some great advice here, I'd say spend as much as you can afford, it's always best to buy high quality. IF you're looking to get going for under $600 and want a copy of a military gun, reconsider an Indian made gun, but go to Middlesex Village Trading Company. They have the best quality and most authentic of the Indian made guns.

 

[J.D.]

Is there anyone who has bored the patant breach out?

As has been said, completely removing them may be problematic, depending on the complexity of the breeching - interlocking parts, exposed threads, etc., but some have been done. If it is doable, a smoothbore would be fairly straightforward, but what diameter would you take a rifle out to - bore diameter, groove diameter, or something else.

One can sometimes open up irritatingly-small ones somewhat. My (now deceased) gunsmith bored the one on my .50 Pedersoli Kentucky out to .30", and it became much less fussy in loading while still performing the services it was intended to. My 16ga has Manton-style breeching with chambers ~.35" that never EVER gave me any trouble. It works perfectly, and it loads and cleans easily as-is.

Regards,
Joel

Joel is right on. A too small diameter patent breech can be bored out, somewhat, but the integrity of the threads on the plug must be maintained. What this means is that removing too much material from the cavity can weaken the roots of the threads.

I have bored the breech on a coupla Pedersoli's but only a little. General consensus is that .300" is about right for small caliber Pedersolis.

God bless

 

[Pigman]

A follow up question on Pedersoli Trade guns.

Has anyone removed the touch hole liner on one?

Mine is in so tight I can not get it out. A friend told me he thought they were glued in. If so how do you get it out?

Thanks,
Foster From Flint

 

[Jason Lewis]

i used to have to heat the barrel up a little to get mine out. use lots of choke tube lube before you put it back in.