northwest trade gun color

[spudnut]

gonna build a type G NW gun and wanted to know if the stocks were ever painted black? We've seen the blue and red and vined and polka dots,but how about plain black ?

 

[Stophel]

I've seen an old trade gun painted black. It was probably mid 19th century though. British military guns of the late 17th century often had their stocks painted black. Supposedly this is the origin of the "brown bess" name. The previous muskets were black, the new muskets were unpainted brown walnut. None of that has anything to do with the question though!

 

[nwtradegun]

contact the musem of the fur trade. they have an extensive collection of nw tradeguns.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Black paint was popular with furniture of the era.....and some stains and varnishes turn black with age ....

 

[crockett]

I was at he MFT less than a month ago. I didn't see any black painted trade rifles.

 

[dhobbs]

Sir,
I think you just about covered all the historic color( Red, Blue, Spotted, ect) choices concerning the type G/Carolina trade gun. I am not aware of any other color type being mentioned. It is my understanding the the type "G"/Carolina gun as defined by T. M. Hamilton is a different animal than the Northwest trade gun. While both are English made, Early northwest guns are sleek but the stock architecture in the wrist and butt area are very different as is the brass fittings. The Carolina gun had a very broad range of distribution( a few parts are found in Northern sites) but had a heavy distribution in the South. Good luck in building your gun......where are you going to get your parts?

David

 

[Alden]

You might indeed be conflating a wider range of guns, but, regardless, if someone at the Fur Of The Museum Trade or otherwise actually tells you "there was no such thing as a black-painted trade gun" (only all the other colors of the rainbow plus contrasting vines...) are you seriously going to do (or not do as the case may be) anything based on that!?

 

[spudnut]

a friend has a lock he said he'll donate as well as thimbles,buttplate trigger guard, he said he can make so i'm buying the barrel and the wood which will be ash as he says it'll keep the price down, Im on a strict budget.Track will be the best bet for the other parts

 

[Stumpkiller]

I believe the British Navy painted muskets black in the early 18th century and possibly before.

Don't know about trade guns.

 

[smoothshooter]

Black might be a little unpleasant to hold or put your face against to shoot on a hot sunny day.

Why black?


The British did paint entire "ship's guns" black to protect them from moisture when out in the salt air, and to reduce time spent maintaining them while in storage.

 

[tenngun]

Bat (Romen Nose) Could not eat anything cooked in iron, or served with an iron spoon. Crazy Horse could not braid his hair and painted hailstones on himself and his horse.Maybe one has to have a black gun just for himself. Guns were cut off, tacked and altered in personal ways. Everybody was a one-of-a-kind.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I think it was actually an asphalt based coating to prevent rust and wood failure from the tropical climates.

A land-based soldier might get to fire his musket four or five times annually for practice. At sea probably they were allowed MUCH less access to the weapons. They were unlocked for emminent action and not something carried or much used 99.9% of the time.

 

[azmntman]

Bat (Romen Nose) Could not eat anything cooked in iron, or served with an iron spoon. Crazy Horse could not braid his hair and painted hailstones on himself and his horse.Maybe one has to have a black gun just for himself. Guns were cut off, tacked and altered in personal ways. Everybody was a one-of-a-kind.

LOL when I was `10 and pop gave me a 30-30 for my birthday I immediately put a BRIGHT orange hunters safety sticker on the stock. 43 years later it still adheres very very well :shocked2:

 

[AZbpBurner]

If you've got to have black, consider Ebony Stain instead of paint. It will be black, but you'll still see a little woodgrain. IMO: black paint on any wood I've made myself would be selling short the beauty of even the ugliest piece of wood.

 

[Alden]

And if you use period correct black milk paint I suppose you could lick the stock in an emergency...

 

[dhobbs]

So is it a English "Type G/ Carolina" trade gun or a Northwest trade gun you are planning to build? If you are building a Carolina gun go to Jack Brooks web site & check out those pics. The guns he shows are painted/stained with a dark red finish. I have a Carolina gun that was built with Jack Brooks parts by the late Dave Wagner. Those guns are "VERY" slender and light....mine weighs in at 5 1/2 pounds in .60 Cal@ 46 inch barrel....I believe they used a Getz barrel for the kit. Another feature that separates the two guns is a brass rear sight is a common feature on the Carolina gun.....many times the sight is an inch or two from the breech. Lee Burke did a really good article on the T.R. gun that was used as the pattern for the Brooks reproductions if you can find it.
Good luck on your project
David

 

[ddoyle]

Just guessing here:

I suspect that anything "painted" black was in fact more likely Ebonized.

per above when the sun hits it, it is going to get real hot in a real hurry. I'd worry that the wood might suffer for it. We do not paint wood boats black for this reason.

 

[LaBonte]

Just guessing here:

I suspect that anything "painted" black was in fact more likely Ebonized.

per above when the sun hits it, it is going to get real hot in a real hurry. I'd worry that the wood might suffer for it. We do not paint wood boats black for this reason.

Asphaltum is a well documented in the late 18th/early 19th Centuries as having been used to blacken wooden gunstocks.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

You know that some guns were colored and painted with various designs of the time. The why may not be all the clear. The total number of colors and their shades are also unknown.

Having seen all the unique knives, guns, and accoutrements that pop up in the historic record; do you really think that if a person really wanted a black painted gun, they would have thought twice about it?

 

[rich pierce]

A person should get or make what they want but not pretend to historical accuracy when doing so or say everybody was individualistic and anything went or goes. Obviously trade guns and knives and all trade goods were made to patterns. We see the often faked up "Indian guns" and imagine that was the norm. For a type G an ash stock would be undocumented as would maple or American walnut or cherry. They were stocked in beech largely or in musket grade Euro walnut.

Yes in other times and places other guns unrelated to the type G or Carolina gun were stocked in whatever and finished many different ways. And a person should have or make what they want. I just would not call a "the way I decide to make it" a type G any more than I would call a Marlin lever action rifle a yellow boy or an 1873 Winchester. Your practice may vary and that's ok by me. Call it a yellow boy!