Don't know if your stock has the butt precut as mine did but the butt plate was the easiest inlet I've done. The entry thimble was no fun. You have 3 inlets to do at the same time...the tab to pin it,the tube in the ramrod channel and the finial in the forestock :cursing: . Lots of " a little here-little there" back and forth till it all fits. Haven't got mine quite right yet but if I can do it you sure will. We are about neck and neck on our builds. And I'm sure we're not alone.
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Yup, pre-inlet. You're far ahead of me myfriend. If I get the go ahead, I have to cut and bend the tang and inlet it. That should be fun. Then the trigger plate and pins. I guess next is the butt plate. The gap on the side of the barrel channel makes me nervous for safety sake. Dull tools and my stupidity are to blame.
I'm tech challenged, but I think I sent you a p.m. VT last night.
I love what Jerry said. "What does he know?" Ya right! Appreciated, like everyone here like Zonie and Birddog. Sorry for the minute by minute updates, but once I get the lock, barrel, vent placement correct I'll try not to be as much of a pain.
fosters
I'm tech challenged, but I think I sent you a p.m. VT last night.
I love what Jerry said. "What does he know?" Ya right! Appreciated, like everyone here like Zonie and Birddog. Sorry for the minute by minute updates, but once I get the lock, barrel, vent placement correct I'll try not to be as much of a pain.
fosters
How difficult the buttplate is depends on the accuracy of the guy precarving it, and also the style of the buttplate, and how precise you want it to fit.
For me, a Acanthus Leaf is about the hardest one I do.
In another direction, if you would have made a Scribe Line at the breechface on the barrel flat, you would know Exactly where the face is. Using a felt marker leaves a variance, as you don't know if the line is for , center, or aft the marker line. I scribe mine with the back side of the tip of a Exacto knife. 1 thin distinct line. I suggest you check again with the RR & find the breech face & be sure & precise on the line.
Then you KNOW where the breechplug face is Exactly.
If it is where you want it, then you are ready to do the Tang. Bend it to shape, bevel it, inlet it. As you inlet the tang, they generally try to push the barrel forward & you must relieve it as you go to keep the barrel all the way back to the stock at the breech.
Get the tang in & down & shaped to what you want, with no pressure holding it in place. Then pin the barrel in.
Keith Lisle
For me, a Acanthus Leaf is about the hardest one I do.
In another direction, if you would have made a Scribe Line at the breechface on the barrel flat, you would know Exactly where the face is. Using a felt marker leaves a variance, as you don't know if the line is for , center, or aft the marker line. I scribe mine with the back side of the tip of a Exacto knife. 1 thin distinct line. I suggest you check again with the RR & find the breech face & be sure & precise on the line.
Then you KNOW where the breechplug face is Exactly.
If it is where you want it, then you are ready to do the Tang. Bend it to shape, bevel it, inlet it. As you inlet the tang, they generally try to push the barrel forward & you must relieve it as you go to keep the barrel all the way back to the stock at the breech.
Get the tang in & down & shaped to what you want, with no pressure holding it in place. Then pin the barrel in.
Keith Lisle
Keep asking and posting. We can be pains together(Right Zonie). I think others may be learning alot from our threads. It aint just about us this crazy thing we're doing :haha: . Didn't get the PM from you. Try sending it again. In my beginner opinion about the gap...I think it will be fine as long as the breech is well seated and the barrel is all the way down in the channel. That gap will cause no loss of support for the barrel. Not really that far ahead of you. Had to skip some steps because my kit didn't come with pins or tang screw. Be here tomorrow or Thurs.
Great tip. I have most of the books and videos, but tips like Keith's I didn't come across. I wish I knew that sooner. Yup felt tip is wide makes me nervious too. That is why I figured if I was going to error, I would make it so I might have to just graze the face of the breech plug. Any thoughts on my gap issue?
fosters
fosters
hoochiepapa
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If you don't mind, I'll chime in. That gap won't hurt anything, but if it really bothers you, get some accraglas and bed that area.
fosters said:
I don't think the gap is an issue, however, if I were to build it I would glass bed the breech/tang anyway & that gap would be filled & eliminated. But that is just me. Some bed them, some don't. I want all the support in the breech I can get, so I know 100% sure that breech is solid & will never move. Especially... if the wood is soft or if I didn't have a perfect fit at the breech. Plus the fact that if properly bedded, you cannot see any of it when the rifle is done anyway. But that is a choice only you can make, it is your build.
Bedding one is a whole dif. story..... They can be a bugger to get the barrel back out if not done properly.
Keith Lisle
I agree that the chipped area is no big problem.
Other than that, I'd say your barrel is in the right place and you should go ahead and work on your breech plugs tang.
Don't forget to gently file a very slight angle on the side surfaces of the tang so that the lower part is slightly narrower than the top.
Then, holding the Exacto Knife parallel with the slight angle on the sides of the tang, scribe the outline into the wood. It usually takes several passes to get the cut 1/16" deep but I suggest that you shoot for that depth.
Yes, because the tang is slightly narrower at the bottom where the scribing will start, the width of the mortice will be narrower than the tang.
After you have removed the wood under the tang to meet the scribed lines the tang will sink down slightly into the stock.
That will present a slightly wider tang to the wood so the next time you use your Exacto Knife to scribe the outline of the tang to make it deeper, it will automatically cut slightly wider and those "undersized" sides will be able to move down into the wood.
You didn't ask but to bend the barrels tang I usually make up a cardboard pattern to serve as a guide.
The pattern rests on top of the barrel flat and is cut to match the curve of the wrist.
I do NOT remove the breech plug when I'm bending the tang. The long barrel serves nicely as a good lever to apply the bending force.
I have the advantage of having a bench vise and I clamp the tang into the vise.
Then grabbing the barrel I apply a slight pressure. It takes surprisingly little force to bend that 1/8" thick tang.
Using the cardboard pattern I continually stop and check the curve in the tang and reposition it in the vise as needed to make the tang bend to the proper shape.
If I didn't have a vise, I suppose using a 12 inch Crescent Wrench could be used but it would be more work.
Other than that, I'd say your barrel is in the right place and you should go ahead and work on your breech plugs tang.
Don't forget to gently file a very slight angle on the side surfaces of the tang so that the lower part is slightly narrower than the top.
Then, holding the Exacto Knife parallel with the slight angle on the sides of the tang, scribe the outline into the wood. It usually takes several passes to get the cut 1/16" deep but I suggest that you shoot for that depth.
Yes, because the tang is slightly narrower at the bottom where the scribing will start, the width of the mortice will be narrower than the tang.
After you have removed the wood under the tang to meet the scribed lines the tang will sink down slightly into the stock.
That will present a slightly wider tang to the wood so the next time you use your Exacto Knife to scribe the outline of the tang to make it deeper, it will automatically cut slightly wider and those "undersized" sides will be able to move down into the wood.
You didn't ask but to bend the barrels tang I usually make up a cardboard pattern to serve as a guide.
The pattern rests on top of the barrel flat and is cut to match the curve of the wrist.
I do NOT remove the breech plug when I'm bending the tang. The long barrel serves nicely as a good lever to apply the bending force.
I have the advantage of having a bench vise and I clamp the tang into the vise.
Then grabbing the barrel I apply a slight pressure. It takes surprisingly little force to bend that 1/8" thick tang.
Using the cardboard pattern I continually stop and check the curve in the tang and reposition it in the vise as needed to make the tang bend to the proper shape.
If I didn't have a vise, I suppose using a 12 inch Crescent Wrench could be used but it would be more work.
Thanks guys! I probably should bed the breech area. I'm big on the safety thing. I do feel I have good contact though and I'm affraid per Birddog's warning, it is probably beyond my skills at this point. I thought maybe that I could alittle later take a piece of wood off the buttplate and glue it into the gap. Any thoughts?
I guess I'm moving to the tang. Lenght seems to be an issue according to Alexander's book. He says somewhere between an 1 1/4 and 2 1/4, depending on carving and thumb piece. I plan to do neither. The pre-inlet for it is 1 1/2". I'm thinking about 1 3/4" because this is "The Little Feller" Lancaster style so I do not want to make it look like a Southern gun. What do you all think?
Zonie,
Bending the tang does have me nervous. I have a bench vise so I can use that. I did see another builder use 5/16 steel rod placed in the jaws of the vise in 3 places. First by the bolster, second on top of the tang where he wanted the bend and lastly underneath the rear tang end. It seemed to make a nice smooth bend. Anyone try that system? I have smooth shaft bolts of that diameter I could drop beside the tang. I'm trying not to have a hump in it. I would like it relatively flat if possible.
I'm not quite getting the cardboard template. I love the idea. I'm a visual learner so picts help me a ton. I don't suppose you have one you could post do you? I'd love to see it and it may be helpful to others. I'd really like to see a "tricks of the trade" stickly on this site. That would be awesome.!
fosters
I guess I'm moving to the tang. Lenght seems to be an issue according to Alexander's book. He says somewhere between an 1 1/4 and 2 1/4, depending on carving and thumb piece. I plan to do neither. The pre-inlet for it is 1 1/2". I'm thinking about 1 3/4" because this is "The Little Feller" Lancaster style so I do not want to make it look like a Southern gun. What do you all think?
Zonie,
Bending the tang does have me nervous. I have a bench vise so I can use that. I did see another builder use 5/16 steel rod placed in the jaws of the vise in 3 places. First by the bolster, second on top of the tang where he wanted the bend and lastly underneath the rear tang end. It seemed to make a nice smooth bend. Anyone try that system? I have smooth shaft bolts of that diameter I could drop beside the tang. I'm trying not to have a hump in it. I would like it relatively flat if possible.
I'm not quite getting the cardboard template. I love the idea. I'm a visual learner so picts help me a ton. I don't suppose you have one you could post do you? I'd love to see it and it may be helpful to others. I'd really like to see a "tricks of the trade" stickly on this site. That would be awesome.!
fosters
I do it differently than some.
I cut & shape the tang how I want it.
Then inlet the lug of the tang so the tang is now resting on the wood. If the tang is 1/4" thinck, I put a 1/4" shim under the muzzle of the barrel, between the barrel inlet & the barrel, so now the barrel is Parallel with the inlet.
I look at the gap between the straight tang & the curve of the wood it should look like.
I go to the vice & make my bend & about 3 trips back & forth, I keep working it til that gap between the wood & the tang is gone.
Then I finish inletting the tang into the stock.
Note when you inlet the tang down, it is going to try to push the barrel away from the breech area. Do NOT let that happen, make sure you keep it all the way back.
When you are done, you should be able to take the barrel in & out without fighting it, and also it should sit down in the inlet & the tang in EASILY..... Not have to force it into the inlet....
Keith Lisle
I cut & shape the tang how I want it.
Then inlet the lug of the tang so the tang is now resting on the wood. If the tang is 1/4" thinck, I put a 1/4" shim under the muzzle of the barrel, between the barrel inlet & the barrel, so now the barrel is Parallel with the inlet.
I look at the gap between the straight tang & the curve of the wood it should look like.
I go to the vice & make my bend & about 3 trips back & forth, I keep working it til that gap between the wood & the tang is gone.
Then I finish inletting the tang into the stock.
Note when you inlet the tang down, it is going to try to push the barrel away from the breech area. Do NOT let that happen, make sure you keep it all the way back.
When you are done, you should be able to take the barrel in & out without fighting it, and also it should sit down in the inlet & the tang in EASILY..... Not have to force it into the inlet....
Keith Lisle
I like that idea. It makes everything go "straight" down. I don't mind taking the time to go back and forth. So far I've taken everyone's advise on each step. I actually use everyone's trick. I use each one and check, then use the next. The combination, and using each tip is great. I use one tip in combination with the others and it seems to work out awesome! Kind of a double check system. Works for me maybe not others.
I'm sure you all have better things to do than babysit me so I would just like to say that your time is so much appreciated by me and hopefully not considered a chore to you all.
For me this set is a fairly substantial investment, and I'm in it for the long haul so I would like to do as much as I'm able correct on my 1st attempt.
Thanks so very much to all!!!
fosters
I'm sure you all have better things to do than babysit me so I would just like to say that your time is so much appreciated by me and hopefully not considered a chore to you all.
For me this set is a fairly substantial investment, and I'm in it for the long haul so I would like to do as much as I'm able correct on my 1st attempt.
Thanks so very much to all!!!
fosters
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