How important is it that the rear lock bolt touches or passes through the breech plug/tang bolster? I have the barrel moved back and the lock inlet so everything lines up that way, i.e. pan/breech plug face/vent liner. Just by "eyeballing" it the rear bolt will not even touch it. Also I'm not sure that the bolster will totally contact the pre-inlet space in the stock. Your thoughts?
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mikemeteor
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not important at all, I believe - maybe even preferable - that way you won't ruin the stock if you forget to take your lock off before trying to remove barrel.fosters said:
again, not a problem. But the rear of the barrel, around the breech plug, should make significant, preferably total, contact with the wood behind it.fosters said:
Keb
50 Cal.
Only problem I can think of without actually looking at it is the placement of the front screw. It will also be to the rear and may hit the main spring if you are using a pre-drilled side plate. I can't say I've ever had one not pass thru the breech plug tang though.
Well I don't know what you are working with, but normally it goes thru the lug or at least hits it someplace. However, nothing says it HAS to go into or even hit the lug, it just usually ends up that way. If it does go thru or hit it, one must insure there is clearance on that hole so the recoil of the rifle doesn't beat on the bolt. If it beats on the bolt if puts pressure on the lock & can push back on it, causing the wood of the lock inlet to crack at the tail of the lock.
You sure you have the barrel back far enough to give proper clearance for the vent hole & or vent liner ?
Keith Lisle
You sure you have the barrel back far enough to give proper clearance for the vent hole & or vent liner ?
Keith Lisle
What combination of lock and breechplug do you have? I'd recheck the lock pan location vs the liner centerline of the bbl. Never had one miss the plug bolster completely...had one that I had to file a notch on the back surface of the bolster for the bolt because I filed off quite a bit. No mechanical reason that the rear lock bolt should go thru the bolster....just odd that it misses the bolster completely....Fred
Thanks all. I'll try and post pictures, but my computer skills and photography skill might be worse than my building skills. Got home from work and lined everything up again. The breech plug face is just about a 1/16" or less in front of the rear pan face. White Lighting liner. The muzzle is about 3/32" from the front of the stock. I still have to square that off so probably not a problem there I guess i can move that around where ever it needs to be.
Sorry to be continued in a few minutes, my snowplow guy just showed up. Ah winter in the north country.
Sorry to be continued in a few minutes, my snowplow guy just showed up. Ah winter in the north country.
Ok, thanks for bearing with me. Got plowed out.
I hadn't thought about the front bolt, good call. I looks like I should be ok of course this from a greenhorn. If I consider the thickness of the bolt shaft it may, may just touch the rear lock bolt. Great call on the clearance aspect and the recoil, thought never crossed my mind. I'm in wanting everythng in the tight mode.
Just alittle venting here. When you all said inlet the lock then the barrel, that was a great call, but I had the barrel already inlet really nice. Back to square 1 again. Fought with the lock for about a week to get that inlet, used about a full stick of lipstick to do it. Now had to go back to re-inleting the swamped barrel. Another week. You all have my greatest respect on the patience thing. :bow: I have yet to put a mallet to the chisel, scraping, scraping, scraping, and I still over inlet the lock. :cursing: I'm hoping when I bring the lock plate down it will tighten things up some. The tang bending and inlet is my next step I guess, any other pitfalls I might need to know? I have to cut the tang and I'm not exactly sure what the length should be. Apparently it all depends to a certain extent on your style? The gun is a Berk's County/Lancaster.
Just as an aside, It's a cherry stock and it seems like every inch the grain changes. Is that just me or is that the nature of cherry?
Your humble servant.
Fosters
P.S. A happy Thanksgiving to you and yours! :thumbsup:
I hadn't thought about the front bolt, good call. I looks like I should be ok of course this from a greenhorn. If I consider the thickness of the bolt shaft it may, may just touch the rear lock bolt. Great call on the clearance aspect and the recoil, thought never crossed my mind. I'm in wanting everythng in the tight mode.
Just alittle venting here. When you all said inlet the lock then the barrel, that was a great call, but I had the barrel already inlet really nice. Back to square 1 again. Fought with the lock for about a week to get that inlet, used about a full stick of lipstick to do it. Now had to go back to re-inleting the swamped barrel. Another week. You all have my greatest respect on the patience thing. :bow: I have yet to put a mallet to the chisel, scraping, scraping, scraping, and I still over inlet the lock. :cursing: I'm hoping when I bring the lock plate down it will tighten things up some. The tang bending and inlet is my next step I guess, any other pitfalls I might need to know? I have to cut the tang and I'm not exactly sure what the length should be. Apparently it all depends to a certain extent on your style? The gun is a Berk's County/Lancaster.
Just as an aside, It's a cherry stock and it seems like every inch the grain changes. Is that just me or is that the nature of cherry?
Your humble servant.
Fosters
P.S. A happy Thanksgiving to you and yours! :thumbsup:
On a Precarve with a lock inlet, you do the Lock First.... Then you put the barrel in & align the proper place for the vent hole or vent liner to be in accordance to the center of the flashpan.
So...... It all depends on where you want the vent liner to end up. If you want the vent liner threads not to intersect with the breechplug threads..... your bolt is most likely going to be in thru the lug. If this be the case, sounds to me like you barrel needs to go back more.
If you want the vent liner at the face of the breechplug, then the vent liner threads & breechplug threads are going to intersect & you will have to cut a groove into the face of the breechplug. Otherwise the cone on the WL vent liner is useless, as you will have half of it blocked. :hmm:
Keith Lisle
So...... It all depends on where you want the vent liner to end up. If you want the vent liner threads not to intersect with the breechplug threads..... your bolt is most likely going to be in thru the lug. If this be the case, sounds to me like you barrel needs to go back more.
If you want the vent liner at the face of the breechplug, then the vent liner threads & breechplug threads are going to intersect & you will have to cut a groove into the face of the breechplug. Otherwise the cone on the WL vent liner is useless, as you will have half of it blocked. :hmm:
Keith Lisle
Thanks for the help! 
It looks like I might have a very little wiggle room and as I understand it I'm trying not to drill into the breech plug face? My fear is not to drill into the breech plug face, but not to put the liner too far forward to make it useless like you said. Lots of variables, even though I researched the heck out of this.
I very much appreciate everyones help. This is something I have always wanted to do and I read every post in an attempt not to bore you all to death. I've been shooting and hunting with BP for years and I consider this the next step. With my continued reading and everyone's kind assistance, maybe next fall I might post a picture of "our" success.
Just as and FYI, as we all know times are tough for alot of folks now and atleast here our local food banks are looking for donations from sportsmen. If you can give some of your harvest this fall I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated.
Fosters
It looks like I might have a very little wiggle room and as I understand it I'm trying not to drill into the breech plug face? My fear is not to drill into the breech plug face, but not to put the liner too far forward to make it useless like you said. Lots of variables, even though I researched the heck out of this. I very much appreciate everyones help. This is something I have always wanted to do and I read every post in an attempt not to bore you all to death. I've been shooting and hunting with BP for years and I consider this the next step. With my continued reading and everyone's kind assistance, maybe next fall I might post a picture of "our" success.
Just as and FYI, as we all know times are tough for alot of folks now and atleast here our local food banks are looking for donations from sportsmen. If you can give some of your harvest this fall I'm sure it would be greatly appreciated.
Fosters
Take a RR or a Range rod & put it down the bore all the way & resting on the breechplug face.
Take a pencil & mark the RR at the exact end of the muzzle.
Take the RR out & put the RR along the barrel flat adjacent to the flat the flashpan is on, align the pencil mark to the end of the muzzle.(If you don't have someone to hold it even with the muzzle, tape it with electrical tape)
Now at the breech end of the RR, mark the end of the RR on the barrel flat. That is exactly where the breechplug face is. Make SURE the muzzle is aligned with the RR mark you made.
IF... you Do Not want the vent liner threads to intersect with the breechplug threads, you lay the vent liner on the mark & move it forward aprox. 1/16 of an inch. (towards the muzzle)This will let the threads clear each other.
Now mark the center of the vent liner on the barrel flat.
That vent liner center line, should match with the center line of the Flashpan. That tells you where the barrel needs to go, forward or backward in the stock, IF you don't want the threads to intersect.
That being said, some PC/HC builders don't want the barrel that far back & they want the flashpan rail to be right at the end of the barrel. To do this you usually have to shorten the breechplug & the threaded breech part of the barrel, as most of them have longer breechplugs than what you can work with on this instance. When this is done the vent hole is usually going to end up right at the breech face. Also this could end up with the rear lock bolt not going thru the breechplug lug.
Also if you used a vent liner in this instance & it is a coned liner, to utilize all of the vent liner cone, the breechplug face will need a groove cut in it to utilize the cone of the vent liner.
Some may or may not agree with this..... :idunno: there are allot of dif ways of building. This is just my opinion from the dif. ways I have seen rifles built.
Keith Lisle
Take a pencil & mark the RR at the exact end of the muzzle.
Take the RR out & put the RR along the barrel flat adjacent to the flat the flashpan is on, align the pencil mark to the end of the muzzle.(If you don't have someone to hold it even with the muzzle, tape it with electrical tape)
Now at the breech end of the RR, mark the end of the RR on the barrel flat. That is exactly where the breechplug face is. Make SURE the muzzle is aligned with the RR mark you made.
IF... you Do Not want the vent liner threads to intersect with the breechplug threads, you lay the vent liner on the mark & move it forward aprox. 1/16 of an inch. (towards the muzzle)This will let the threads clear each other.
Now mark the center of the vent liner on the barrel flat.
That vent liner center line, should match with the center line of the Flashpan. That tells you where the barrel needs to go, forward or backward in the stock, IF you don't want the threads to intersect.
That being said, some PC/HC builders don't want the barrel that far back & they want the flashpan rail to be right at the end of the barrel. To do this you usually have to shorten the breechplug & the threaded breech part of the barrel, as most of them have longer breechplugs than what you can work with on this instance. When this is done the vent hole is usually going to end up right at the breech face. Also this could end up with the rear lock bolt not going thru the breechplug lug.
Also if you used a vent liner in this instance & it is a coned liner, to utilize all of the vent liner cone, the breechplug face will need a groove cut in it to utilize the cone of the vent liner.
Some may or may not agree with this..... :idunno: there are allot of dif ways of building. This is just my opinion from the dif. ways I have seen rifles built.
Keith Lisle
Hello all,
Here are a few pictures to help if I get this to work correctly.
The black line is the face of the breech plug, measured with the ramrod and with a scale from the back. The circle is the possible location of the White Lighting vent.
The next one is with the barrel in place and the pencil line is where the rear lock bolt should go with the side plate in place.
The last one is what I have for barrel contact at the breech area. Is it enough?
Anyone see any problems? If you can see it in the 1st picture about half of the vent liner is above the pan and half below. Not good?
Thanks again!
Here are a few pictures to help if I get this to work correctly.
The black line is the face of the breech plug, measured with the ramrod and with a scale from the back. The circle is the possible location of the White Lighting vent.
The next one is with the barrel in place and the pencil line is where the rear lock bolt should go with the side plate in place.
The last one is what I have for barrel contact at the breech area. Is it enough?
Anyone see any problems? If you can see it in the 1st picture about half of the vent liner is above the pan and half below. Not good?
Thanks again!
That depends on how you want it. Looks like to me the barrel needs to go back a smidgen, as the vent liner is not centered to the pan.
Also from what you are showing, the threads of the vent liner & the breechplug are going to intersect.
Also I would glass bed that breech after I got the tang in & inletted & it all done, but that is just me. Some do it, some don't.
Keith Lisle
Also from what you are showing, the threads of the vent liner & the breechplug are going to intersect.
Also I would glass bed that breech after I got the tang in & inletted & it all done, but that is just me. Some do it, some don't.
Keith Lisle
I agree with Birddog6. The center of the flash hole liner should be closer to the center of the pan (fore and aft).
By moving the barrel back about 1/8 inch (or so) the vent will line up with the center of the pan.
It will also allow you a few more opportunities to get a better percentage of contact between the rear of the barrel and the wood.
(Don't forget to keep on using your lipstick to find the high points and when you are removing them, take hair thin cuts only on the marked places. )
After the barrel has been moved back towards the butt, you will have the answer to your initial question. The rear lock bolt will probably interfere with the breech plug a bit so you will have to file a clearance notch in it. :grin:
By moving the barrel back about 1/8 inch (or so) the vent will line up with the center of the pan.
It will also allow you a few more opportunities to get a better percentage of contact between the rear of the barrel and the wood.
(Don't forget to keep on using your lipstick to find the high points and when you are removing them, take hair thin cuts only on the marked places.
)After the barrel has been moved back towards the butt, you will have the answer to your initial question. The rear lock bolt will probably interfere with the breech plug a bit so you will have to file a clearance notch in it. :grin:
Got it. I'll slide it back a bit more. My fear is getting the vent too far forward of the breech plug and affecting ignition.
Glass bed the breech? I'll have to do a search on that to see what you mean and what it does. If it helps I'm up for it.
Yup got a nice shade of lipstick. I think it goes great with the cherry stock. Used about 1/2 the tube so far. The girlfriend is starting to worry about me.
Thanks again!
Glass bed the breech? I'll have to do a search on that to see what you mean and what it does. If it helps I'm up for it.
Yup got a nice shade of lipstick. I think it goes great with the cherry stock. Used about 1/2 the tube so far. The girlfriend is starting to worry about me.
Thanks again!
"The girlfriend is starting to worry about me."
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:rotf:
Just remember, you want a very thin coating of it.
If your not already doing this, you might want to get a very small paint brush. The kind that is made for painting model cars.
Lightly brush the lipstick with the brush and then "paint" it onto the metal part.
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:rotf:
Just remember, you want a very thin coating of it.
If your not already doing this, you might want to get a very small paint brush. The kind that is made for painting model cars.
Lightly brush the lipstick with the brush and then "paint" it onto the metal part.
Ok tomorrow I should post pictures of the final product. Wow, fustrating. I'm being overly careful probably. Instead of using the chisel to quickly remove the 1/16 or 1/18 of an inch I'm just scraping the breech area. Taking forever. I bet I've put that barrel in and out of the stock 50 times atleast. Take some wood off the breech, than I have to scrape some wood off the channel to get it back into contact. I'm kind of thinking that this is the hardest part right? If I end up with gaps on the inleting on the other parts so be it,but if I mess this up nothing will function correctly. I'm finding a cherry stock a challenge, but that is probably just me.
fosters
fosters
As you will learn, moving the barrel back is not the hardest part of building a gun.
Probably the biggest PITA is inletting the entry thimble and the butt plate.
Down the road when you get to inletting these areas where the wood to metal fit should be exact, don't forget to use your pointed Hobby Knife.
NEVER USE A PENCIL TO TRACE THE OUTLINES AND THEN CUT TO THE PENCIL LINE.
Anyway, it is MUCH BETTER to go slowly and to sneak up on the final cut than it is to go too rapidly and cut away some needed wood.
Keep up the good work.
Probably the biggest PITA is inletting the entry thimble and the butt plate.
Down the road when you get to inletting these areas where the wood to metal fit should be exact, don't forget to use your pointed Hobby Knife.
NEVER USE A PENCIL TO TRACE THE OUTLINES AND THEN CUT TO THE PENCIL LINE.
Anyway, it is MUCH BETTER to go slowly and to sneak up on the final cut than it is to go too rapidly and cut away some needed wood.
Keep up the good work.
The cherry is much easier to work with than hard maple. The cherry will splinter easier so you have to watch it in that aspect, yet not splinter as easily as some walnut I have used. I am building a cherry Tenn. right now.
Keith Lisle
PS: Buttplates are the only part of the build I don't really care for.
Hey all,
Here’s where I’m at thus far.
These two pictures are where the vent/pan relationship is now. I’m pretty happy but does anyone see a problem? I should just miss the breech plug or if I don’t I should just scuff the face.
The next one is the fitting of the breech.
Lastly is a problem that I hope isn’t serious. I have a dip, gap or whatever at the very rear of the breech area of the barrel and the bottom of the stock. The breech area contacts the bottom of the barrel channel, but there is a gap of about an 1/8 of and inch between the next flat towards the lock and the wood where the lock rests against. Serious problem?
I found out about the cherry splintering, that’s how I ended up with the gap above.
Hey Zonie and Birddog. Everyone seems to complain about the butt plate and the entry thimble and if you guys dread it, this should be real fun!
I tried the pencil on the lock, won’t do that again. If you all think it looks ok, I’ll cut and bend the tang and get to work on that.
Your thoughts?
fosters
Here’s where I’m at thus far.
These two pictures are where the vent/pan relationship is now. I’m pretty happy but does anyone see a problem? I should just miss the breech plug or if I don’t I should just scuff the face.
The next one is the fitting of the breech.
Lastly is a problem that I hope isn’t serious. I have a dip, gap or whatever at the very rear of the breech area of the barrel and the bottom of the stock. The breech area contacts the bottom of the barrel channel, but there is a gap of about an 1/8 of and inch between the next flat towards the lock and the wood where the lock rests against. Serious problem?
I found out about the cherry splintering, that’s how I ended up with the gap above.
Hey Zonie and Birddog. Everyone seems to complain about the butt plate and the entry thimble and if you guys dread it, this should be real fun!
I tried the pencil on the lock, won’t do that again. If you all think it looks ok, I’ll cut and bend the tang and get to work on that.
Your thoughts?
fosters
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