"Notches" on Kit Carson Hawken

[bullshot]

This may have all ready been addressed on the forum but I couldn't find such. There are several photographs of the cheek rest of the Carson Hawken that he donated to the Masonic Lodge. All but one of the ones I have seen focus in closely on the engraved check rest inlay. I have seen one photo that encompasses a larger area around the cheek rest. In that photo there are 8 small pricks or holes in a row in the stock between bottom of cheek rest and edge of the stock. They appear to have been punched with a small nail or needle. I have not seen any mention of these markings in the literature. I would love to know more about them if anyone knows what the signify.

 

[Herb]

 

[64Springer]

Looks like a set of spurs, the wheel, accidently made contact, rolled and made impressions.

Or they signify the eight bars Mr. Carson kilt with his bare hands.

But he was too weak from the struggles to make the holes very deep.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I wonder if he might have been stitching something and used his riflestock as a work surface, suggesting those are prick marks from an awl. Carson apprenticed under a saddler before running away to the west. I’ve often wondered how much of his leatherwork and saddle/harness repair he might have done himself, and how his workmanship measured up.

All speculation on my part, though, regarding the prick marks.

I think the Tom Tobin Hawken has some nicks in a corner on its octagonal barrel. I’m pretty sure it’s the Tobin Hawken. It is believed that these are a tally of some sort. Granville Stuart described a rifle owned by a neighbor that had a tally in the form of scratch marks inside the patch box lid to show the number of deer killed with the rifle. I suppose the marks on the Carson Hawken could just as easily be a tally.

Fun to speculate.

Notchy Bob

 

[bullshot]

Thanks fellows. I had totally forgot about Ol' Kit and his marks! I do find them interesting. You'll have some good ideas about them.

 

[snakebit]

Some of the stories those old firearms could tell. Be worth admission at any price.

 

[longcruise]

I think @64Springer might be on to something. The marks seem to have a near uniform distance between dots. The one seems to be a bit off being a bit larger but looking at it center to center of the adjoining dots it seems uniform. Not in a straight line though. Not saying this is the answer but a leather stitch marking wheel would make a similar set of marks.

 

[D.Summers]

I do not believe that Kit Carson would keep a tally of his kills! Totally outside of what seems to be his personality!

 

[nit wit]

Only the Shadow knows!
Nit Wit

 

[Crockford]

It may be whatever it was hung on was sharp. The person taking it up and down was short. So every time they put it back up they scratched the inlay and made a small hole spot on the stock. There are about the same number of scratches. The holes don't seem from the picture to be aged as much as the rest of the stock.
Or it could be how many beard hairs were pulled out from the inlay???? Just my 1/2 cent.

 

[Edm]

Speaking of Carson....i was at Philmont Scout Ranch in NM and they had a Kit Carson museum. I remember they had a rifle there, and I took pictures but have no clue where they are. Anyone know if that was just a stand in look alike or an actual rifle he owned?

Don’t mean to derail the thread, but figured someone reading this may know.

 

[chorizo]

To add to the story here......I am reading

Four Years in the Rockies: or, The adventures of Isaac P. Rose​

and Kit Carson figures largely in the story as Carson and Rose were "buddies" for most of the 4 years. In it, Rose recounts how Carson took an Indian bride and was showing her how to repair a saddle. Having done my share of saddle and leather work, it sure looks like he used the flat of the stock to punch holes with an awl in a piece of leather to me.

However, the scratch analysis above certainly has plausible merit also!

 

[bullshot]

View attachment 252805
It may be whatever it was hung on was sharp. The person taking it up and down was short. So every time they put it back up they scratched the inlay and made a small hole spot on the stock. There are about the same number of scratches. The holes don't seem from the picture to be aged as much as the rest of the stock.
Or it could be how many beard hairs were pulled out from the inlay???? Just my 1/2 cent.

Dang. You should be a detective. An interesting observation.

 

[64Springer]

The center to center dimensions on those marks could never be made by randomly hanging up and taking down that rifle.

Something caused them to be perfectly spaced out.

Let me grab my digital calipers.

Every one of those center to center dimensions is .690 inches. Post #10.

A needle doing leather work wouldn't have done it either. That would have caused random center to center dimensions.

Something well made, symmetrical and circular rolled along that area.

 

[Crockford]

Well after receiving a gun in the mail yesterday, I'm going to how, blame it on
shipping.

 

[ZUG]

I'd say it was done with a leather spacing wheel and was done long after Carson passed. I will also say it was done by someone to increase the rifles sale price or add to its mystique. My take on it was that it was done to deceive -- my two cents worth.