numrich arms

[bhoteling]

Hi All,

I just acquired a Numrich Arms, Hopkins and Allen marked The "OFFHAND" , W. Hurley, N.Y. in .36 cal. I can't seem to find much information on this rifle and would like to know some basics such as what load to use , how to take it apart for cleaning etc. As you can guess I am fairly new to the sport. Thanks for the help

 

[Alden]

Welcome.

Mmmuscles!

 

[hanshi]

I have one in .45, the "Heritage Model". It's nearly 50 yoa but still shoots up a storm. Sometimes these bores are a bit undersize and require a slightly smaller ball than usual. Before buying any mold, try some .350" ball and a .015" patch. If it's too tight you might need to go with a .345 (+ or -)" ball OR a .010" patch. My .45 was undersize (they recommended a .435" ball) but worked well with a .440" ball and a .015" patch. Start with 30 grains of 3F. You can go up and down to find a good small game load.

 

[nwtradegun]

I had a 36 cal buggy rifle and since I need balls I used no. 3 buckshot [ 330 diameter ] and a 15 th. patch. five lbs. lasted 8 years and still going till I traded it. bores are tight on h and a s

 

[ohio ramrod]

Numrich arms barrels do require a smaller ball and or thinner patch than most barrels of the same caliber. I have a 45 that likes a 435 ball where as my other 45's like a 445 ball. While the T.C.s like a 440 ball. :idunno: :idunno:

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the Forum.

Assuming no one has buggered up the hole for the nipple, the Numrich guns use a unusual thread there.

The nipple thread is a 1/4-32UN size so I suggest that when you have a minute you remove the existing nipple from the barrel.

Use a flashlight and examine the threads. If they look good and the nipple is in good shape just reinstall it.

If you ever need a replacement nipple, they can be found at Track of the Wolf in this link. They are about 1/2 way down the list.
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/2

 

[F.G. Ford]

I had a Numrich underhammer rifle for many years,
probably one of the more accurate guns I have ever had.
A .350 ball,a .010 patch lubed with 1/3 bees wax,1/3 olive oil/ 1/3 Murphy's soap and 35 grains of 3f makes for target grade shooting and fearsome medicine on squirrels.
Good luck with you great find, and don't let it go too quickly.
With an underhammer you should always use a thicker long sleeve shirt, so not to get sprayed with gasses and caps from the nipple.
Does it still have the loli pop rear sight?
Some will tease you about the non traditional ugly gun, but the underhammer dates back to very earlt 1800's.
Fred

 

[Metalshaper]

the "long sleeve shirt" thing always amazes me?
I've shot mine for a number of years and have never experienced the "spray" that is so often mentioned??? Guess I'm just lucky( or I'm doing it wrong?? )

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[Billnpatti]

Yep, it must be one of the two because, I too, have an underhammer rifle and it will, on occasion, spray my arm with cap fragments. It's just what it does. The fragments do nothing more than sting but it is uncomfortable enough that I choose to wear arm protection. Oh, I have on rare occasion had to use my knife point to pick out a cap fragment that managed to puncture my skin but that is rare. Arm protection is just something I choose to wear for my own comfort (so long as I can remember to take it with me in the summer time). It's just what I do. :hatsoff:

 

[Mickc01]

Sounds like some type of benchrest is in order. Congrats on the gun, I've always wanted to try one of those. :hatsoff:

 

[frogwalking]

Many years ago, while using my Numrich Arms underhammer, I had to go fishing in my left forearm with a sharp pair of tweezers to retrieve the cap fragment lodged there. while I have not stopped shooting underhammer rifles, I try not to repeat the experience.

 

[hawkeye2]

There is absolutely NO reason to take it apart for cleaning. The breech plugs are cylindrical and fit snugly into a hole in the action. If you grip them with a pipe wrench or Vise Grips you will bugger it up and have problems getting it back in the action.

The barrels are tack drivers though they do tend to be undersized for their nominal caliber and do therefore require a smaller ball. They were available in .36, .45, .50 and.58. I had one pass (completely unaltered from factory) through my hands 35 years ago and I remember it as being .54, does anyone know of one having been offered in that caliber? I suppose it could have been a .58 and my memory is failing.

As Zonie said the nipple is a special thread and are also available in different lengths to match your barrel wall thickness. It is OK to routinely remove the nipple when cleaning. Use Never Seize or choke tube lube when re installing and don't over tighten.

Deer Creek, no website, should have parts if you ever need any.

 

[Nobade]

I have one of the short buggy rifles, great shooter! At first I thought the bore was very tight but it ended up just being very rough near the muzzle. Since it only went a little way down, I coned it and it's been great ever since. Somebody already changed out the nipple when I bought it, and evidently ran a 1/4-28 tap in and used that size thread. So far it hasn't shown any sign of getting loose or blowing out, but I don't load it very heavy and sure don't let my arm get under it when it's fired. Someday I am planning on building a new longer, bullet firing barrel for it and making a peep sight to fit in the hole in the receiver. (It has Marble barrel sights on it now). Interesting rifles and sure adaptable to custom work!

 

[Rifleman1776]

changed out the nipple when I bought it, and evidently ran a 1/4-28 tap in and used that size thread. So far it hasn't shown any sign of getting loose or blowing out

I just love the "so far" bit. :shocked2:
I have a friend who is a modern gun gunsmith. He did some work on a Num. underhammer and replaced the nipple. While shooting it blew loose and embedded in his arm. He didn't say anything about that experience being fun.
Nipples are cheap. Emergency rooms and pain aren't. Replace immediately and don't shoot until you do.

 

[Pete44ru]

.

Welcome to the forum !

My .36 H&A underhammer refuses to swallow a .350" ball, unless the (lubed) patch is thin enough to see through, so I boughten some .340" balls from TOTW, which load/shoot just fine with pillow ticking patches - just don't forget to lubricate your patches prior to loading.

.

 

[F.G. Ford]

Fine looking old underhammer!
Fred

 

[Zonie]

This may have been posted but it won't hurt to have it again.

Back in the 1987 Dixie Gunworks catalog on page 520 there is a table of recommended ball sizes for Numrich barrels.

It gives the data by Caliber, Land to Land measurement, Recommended ball size

.31 caliber, .297 bore, .290 ball
.36 caliber, .357 bore, .340 ball
.45 caliber, .443 bore, .435 ball
.50 caliber, .500 bore, .490 ball
.58 caliber, .575 bore, .565 ball

 

[bhoteling]

Hi Pete,

How did you get the forend off? Thost two little brass pins?

 

[Rifleman1776]

This may have been posted but it won't hurt to have it again.

Back in the 1987 Dixie Gunworks catalog on page 520 there is a table of recommended ball sizes for Numrich barrels.

It gives the data by Caliber, Land to Land measurement, Recommended ball size

.31 caliber, .297 bore, .290 ball
.36 caliber, .357 bore, .340 ball
.45 caliber, .443 bore, .435 ball
.50 caliber, .500 bore, .490 ball
.58 caliber, .575 bore, .565 ball

Some things in the Dixie catalog were helpful. Others pure fantasy.
In the 1970s I had an ml shop in Indiana and I sold H&A/Numrich rifles and kits. My family also grew up ml'ing with mostly Numrich underhammers. My wife has stacks of medals she won with a .45 cal. buggy rifle. My son won junior light bench and X-stick matches with a heavy barrel version. Point is, we have some experience with these. Long time ago but I believe I would remember if we had to use, or reccomend to my customers, to use odd ball sizes in these barrels. I'm sure we only used the popular .440 and .445 balls in those that I cast with Lyman moulds. Not saying anyone is wrong about current barrels being somewhat undersized, but my experience 'back then' was quite different. That said, this all supports the ml truth that stated bore sizes are not gospel or perzactly the same from one gun to another, even from mass manufactures. Don't git me started on how early TC barrels varied :shocked2: ......

 

[Pete44ru]

Hi Pete,

How did you get the forend off? Thost two little brass pins?

Yes - then I epoxied a cartridge case to the bottom of the bbl, just ahead of the nipple, for a rear RR thimble.


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