Numrich H&A .45 Underhammer

[CKeshen]

I bought a Numrich HOPKINS & ALLEN UNDERHAMMER .45 rifle today on Gunbroker. It is The "Offhand" model. The seller says it has a 20" barrel, but it sure looks a lot longer in the picture.

Neat looking gun. Can anybody suggest a ball/patch combo to work with this rifle? I've read that the Numrich .45 barrels were a little tight. I have some .443 balls and some .001 Wonderlube patches that I shoot out of my .44 La Page pistol. This could be a good place to start, but anyone's actual experience would be appreciated.

 

[nhmoose]

I believe that .433 balls were recommended.

 

[Zonie]

A lot of the guns made back in the '70's that were .44 caliber called themselves .45's.
I'm not sure if Numrich did this with the .45's but their .36's were quite a bit smaller than a real .36 caliber bore.

If the previous owners haven't messed up the threads for the nipple, the Numrich guns use a somewhat odd 1/4-32 thread size.

These 1/4-32 threaded nipples come in several lengths and the correct one depends on the barrel size and the bore size.

Here's a link to Track of the Wolf's nipple selection, just in case you need one.
The correct nipples show up on page 2 and 3
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/2

 

[Rifleman1776]

I sold H&A undies and my family used them extensively back in the 70s. I have never owned a .433 mould. We used .440s. But, things change. You can buy commercial .433s. Do try some. They are a great style rifle, dependable and accurate. If memory serves me right, the twist was 1:56". A very versitile twist. Again, things might be different today.

 

[CKeshen]

Yes, it is .433 balls that I have for my Le Page, not the .443 I stated above and use them with a 0.010 patch.

I'm going to see how that works.

 

[CKeshen]

The seller suggested .440. But he did not specify a patch thickness, and I got the feeling that maybe this was not his gun he was selling and had no first hand experience....oh well. Somebody out there has to have some current experience.

 

[bob308]

both of my h&a underhammer rifles use a .440 and .018 patch. 45 r. 3f.

 

[M. De Land]

Mine has a new GM barrel on it and it likes .445 ball and .018 cotton felt patch.

 

[bigburk]

My under hammer is from the '70s(?) and is marked "Challanger Mfg. Co. Hopkins & Allen Improved". It loads a lot easier with the .433 ball. Last trip to the range I used a pillow ticking patch and 40 gr. of 3F. The gun shot very well.
My issue with this gun is that the hammer doesn't land squarely on the nipple and tends to peen one side of the nipple which eventually leads to some misfires. May want to order some extra nipples.

 

[F.G. Ford]

The hammer not falling squarely on a percussion nipple is a common problem on many rifles.
It is an easy remedy.
Just mark the impact area of the hemmer with lip stick, or even paint.
Press the hammer down on the nipple enough to mark the lipstick or paint.
With a Dremel type tool carefully grind( purchase the proper diameter grinder tips at any building supply type store Lowes, Nappa) that side of the nipple, until it sits squarely on the nipple. GO SLOW! There is no hurry.
After that, the nipples will last much longer, with good and even percussion cap performance.
Good Luck!
Fred

 

[Ted W. Coombs]

I have a H&A underhammer .45 also. My best load is,70gr. 3fff Goex powder, 1-.030 fiber wad,.020 pillow tick patch with hoppes #9 plus lube, and a .433 hornady rb. At 55 yds. 3 shots can be covered by a nickel. This is going to be my hunting load for deer. Going to try it at 75 yds. Hope this helps ya. Teton

 

[M. De Land]

My GM barreled H&A likes 65 grains of 3F and the .445 and .018 felt patch mentioned before.
This is my target load for all ranges up to and including 100 yards. Mike D.

 

[Billnpatti]

The hammer not striking the nipple squarely can sometimes mean that at some time someone installed a nipple that is either too long or too short. If the hammer is striking the nipple toward the rear of the face of the hammer, it can mean that the nipple is too long. Conversly, if the hammer face is striking toweard the front of the hammer, it can mean that the nipple is too short. To determine how much too long the nipple is, you will need to sacrifice the nipple by carefully and slowly filing it down until it contacts the face of the hammer squarely. Use the lipstick method of seeing where the hammer is striking the nipple. When you have filed it to the point tha tha the hammer is striking it squarely, send that nipple to Track of The Wolf along with an explination of your problem and why the nipple has been filed and have them match the nipple for you. If it is striking toward the front of the face of the hammer, it is too short and you need a longer nipple. This requires that you measure the exact heighth of the nipple to the closest thousandths of an inch. This will require a micromenter. Slowly back out your nipple a quartere of a turn at a time until the hammer is striking it squarely. Again, you will be using the likpstick method to determine when it is striking squarely. Now, measure how much you have raised the nipple, measure the nipple from the base (not including the base or the threads) to the top where the cap goes on. This is how much longer of a nipple you will need. Send this info to TOW along with the nipple that you used to make your measurements including an explanation of what you did and why and they will find a nipple that will work for you.

Or, you can just keep using the nipples that you have and just carefully grind the face of the hammer until it strikes the nipple squarely. Either way will work, it just depends on whether you want to grind your hammer or find a better fitting nipple (if one exists).

 

[bigburk]

Thanks for the suggestion Fred. I am rather reluctant to start fixin on small problems 'cause that often results in bigger troubles for me. Right now I am playing with a Charleville musket so I won't be shooting the caplock for a while.

 

[hanshi]

I have a "Heritage" model H&A .45 from the 1960s (now retired). The mold that came with it was a 433" approx but I preferred the better quality .440" ball from my Lyman mold. Not too hard to load with a thin patch. The load was 60 grains of 3F Dupont. It killed bobcats, deer and squirrels; and yes, it "DOES" do those nickle size groups at 60 yards.