Odd results; bench vs. offhand shooting

[kyron4]

Had a nice windless overcast day today, so I got a chance to shoot my Traditions Kentucky flintlock. From the bench at 50 yards I shot a lack luster 4 1/2" group of five shots. Now I'm not the greatest shot with a flintlock but this was a bit disappointing. I tried a five shot group from an semi kneeling offhand position and put five shots inside 2" almost making one ragged hole. Seems very backwards and I can't explain it. Was it a fluke ? I usually shoot steel targets on my woods walk and do very well, haven't shot much from the bench once it was sighted in a few years ago. Any thoughts ? -Thanks

 

[SDSmlf]

Had a nice windless overcast day today, so I got a chance to shoot my Traditions Kentucky flintlock. From the bench at 50 yards I shot a lack luster 4 1/2" group of five shots. Now I'm not the greatest shot with a flintlock but this was a bit disappointing. I tried a five shot group from a semi kneeling offhand position and put five shots inside 2" almost making one ragged hole. Seems very backwards and I can't explain it. Was it a fluke ? I usually shoot steel targets on my woods walk and do very well, haven't shot much from the bench once it was sighted in a few years ago. Any thoughts ? -Thanks

One range outing doesn’t mean much. Not if results are repeating over multiple outings, something to think about.

 

[TDM]

Another factor is your sight picture. At the bench you rest height might not give you the proper weld you get offhand or kneeling.

 

[kyron4]

One range outing doesn’t mean much. Not if results are repeating over multiple outings, something to think about.

I agree, this was a sample size of one. Plan to get it out soon. Weather has not been cooperating lately.

 

[ETipp]

My guess is it has to do with the difference in butt stock position between sitting and not sitting at a bench.

I’m going through this right now with my Crockett rifle. My plans are to do more target shooting within the next few days while standing and using the side of a tree as a rest. I firmly believe this makes a difference. Seldom do I take a shot at a squirrel while sitting. Most everyone is while standing and using a tree to get a solid rest from.

 

[Banjoman]

I have a Traditions Kentucky percussion and have to use very high sand bags under the barrel and a low seat so that I’m sitting more upright. It’s because of the stock shape and crescent butt plate for me. I’ve been able to get fist sized groups at 75 yards with it.

 

[dave951]

Bench technique can have a huge effect on group size out of our rifles- how you grip the rifle, where you rest the barrel, how you sit, all factor into it.

 

[flconch53]

This is what I have found for myself. It is just more comfortable to use crossed sticks than to try to use sandbags. You have more adjustment. I also have had success with a bench with a threaded for adjustment rest built in. Give different options a try until you get what works for you.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Exactly what @dave951 says, I too was going to bet it was how the barrel was supported. Harmonics can play BIG havoc with bench shooting. If bench testing a BP arm, I don't support the weight of the fored/barrel on bags, but like someone else mentioned, I'll use tall sandbags and place my forward hand on that top of the bags. Then me hand if holding the arm similar to how I hold it shooting sitting of offhand.

But before you start shooting groups ... you really need to do some load development to find YOUR best group/load combo. Find the node(2)!

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/...d-development’-to-find-the-best-group.169960/

 

[Grimord]

On a few of my long barreled guns I have found that if you rest the forearm in the area of one of the barrel pins the gun will shoot off (usually high). As Flint62Smoothie said, barrel harmonics play a big role in accuracy. Once I know the gun is shooting on paper, I do the rest of my shooting off hand to simulate how i would be using the gun on woods walks or hunting. I seldom target shoot for score.

 

[GriscomRun]

All good things to consider. Both TDM and Smoothie and Dave make very good points here.
I do bench testing trying to simulate the offhand , in a way. Something I learned from air rifle shooters - resonance.
I set the rest high and use a bag 2/3 full. I do not want a "hard" bag. Place my hand on the bag holding the rifle forend - where you would hold your rifle when actually taking a shot at game or gong.
And as TDM mentioned, you need a consistent position to get a consistent sight picture and stock weld.
Way back when I was in my prime I found that when shooting the unmentionable and getting that perfect x-ring zero I would be "off" when shooting
offhand (windage). Found I had to add a couple clicks of right windage to get that offhand shot into the 10 / x-ring.
Ha ! Even benching takes practice.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

FWIW I've seen poor bench shooting technique ruin more good rifles and/or shooter's potential!

To mimic offhand results, i find that sitting upright, but leaning back against a post, keeps my upper body alignmet similar to my offhand position and that's how I sight in, or fine tune a load. I only bench for groups/load development.

 

[rafterob]

When I was sighting in my flintlock on the bench I was getting close but could not seem to get it zeroed in. One of our clubs experts advised me to finish up my sighting offhand as Flintlocks are "persnickety" on the bench. His advice panned out.

 

[Sam squanch]

This is really true with pistols. I sight them in for an accuracy test on the bench, then sight them in as I will actually hold them in the field.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

If I am shooting an offhand rifle off a bench I set it up so the hold is the same as when shooting it offhand. The rest is going to be where I hold the rifle offhand and it is going to be higher so that my cheek will rest on the stock just like it would if shooting offhand.

 

[kyron4]

I will add, I feel when I shoot from the bench I tend to over focus/concentrate and try to hard for that perfect shot, where offhand I tend to line up the sights hold steady and pull the trigger.

All the above advice makes perfect sense. Hope to get out next week for more shooting.

 

[billraby]

I shoot better offhand than from a bench. That is because I almost never shoot from a bench.

 

[sportster73hp]

I shot my smr from the bench this last week and noticed the cheek weld was different. I definitely was bent over more shooting this way .

 

[Rob M.]

Probably just a fluke but ...very interesting ...

 

[ronaldrothb49]

I shot my smr from the bench this last week and noticed the cheek weld was different. I definitely was bent over more shooting this way .

The sights on a bench rest rifle are a lot higher off the barrel so they don't have to be over the rifle to line up with the sights. With the much lower open sights on an offhand rifle you need to get your rest higher so you don't have to be over the comb to find the sights. I have also found if you have the rest where you hold the rifle when shooting offhand you will get more consistent results when you are shooting offhand.