Oh, what to get, what to get....??

[wkndman]

Hi, All
Getting back in after many moons. Looking at 28 gauge fowlers for crows/groundhogs/clays. Also low recoil. Considering Caywood vs.TVM for a lefty. Any views on comparative quality, weak vs. strong points. Cost is close, any others I'm overlooking to consider?
Thanks, wkndman

 

[paulvallandigham]

Why not go with a versatile 20 gauge fowler, where you can load down to shoot 28 gauge loads if you want, but have the ability to shoot legal RB for deer, and legal loads for Turkey, too?

Check with Caywood for their fusil or fowler. They make a nice LH gun. TVM makes a good LH gun at a great price.

 

[thewho66]

I would stick with a 20 gauge if for the only reason is that when you order a gun in 28 it is still built with a 20 gauge profile barrel. that would be the Caywood. I like the Caywood so later you can order a rifled barrel at a much reduced cost getting a new gun. If you Tald to TVM make sure the barrel is a 28 gauge profiled barrel and the stock shaping is made for the barrel. as an exaple some time down the road I would like to oreder a .58 Cal. rifled barrel from Caywood and that berrle is only about 4 oz. heavier than an a 20 gauge barrel. the weight will make a diference on swing and ballence of the gun.

 

[wkndman]

Hummmm...yeah...didn't think of that. Not much of a cold season hunter, haven't been out in years, thought about varmints, just for live targets. Probably end up w/clays, paper plates, hee,hee. Probably better for resale if this doesn't pan out, some of my pastimes don't. Both those co.'s have 20's, Caywood has a 28, and 5 barrels interchange if rifling or other gauge's wanted in future. That's a nice feature....

 

[Many Klatch]

The 28 gauge/.54 caliber barrel is a good choice if you are going to be shooting a lot of round ball. But if you want to shoot clays a 20 guage will put out more shot and give you a bigger pattern.

Many Klatch

 

[jmac]

I have a .20 gauge lefty by TVM. For the money spent I can't speak poorly of it at all. It was built by Jack Garner near the end of his ownership of TVM. I have stuggled mightily with roundball though. Is it possible to have a rifled barrel, say .58 cal, built for it?

J-Mac

 

[wkndman]

Good point, those caywoods are versatile

 

[wkndman]

Some say wisdom comes with age, I just get nuttier, a bud is talking me into clays w/double 410, just for challenge, therefore the 28. I really don't know what I'll shoot more at this point.

 

[thewho66]

It would depend on who made the barrel, or you could just call tvm and ask them. More than likly the answer is yes even if you have to have a barrel made to fit some one should be able to do it.

 

[wkndman]

Yezsir, the c-wood interchangable barrels are a big plus, even years later go from smoothie to rifle, many cal.offered. Their wilson has a butt like a warclub for recoil, understand it's very light & balanced. Think I'm set on a Co., Paul advised light load a 20,and have the versatility, good one. I love this forum, good advise, thanks for helping make up my feeble mind, hee, hee :haha:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Just as an additional comment, when you load a smaller gauge shot load in a larger gauge, you almost always get a better pattern, than if that same small gauge load is fired from a small gauge barrel. One of the true benefits of shooting ML smoothbores, is that you can load reduced gauge loads, and get better patterns, with less recoil- not that recoil is much of a factor.

When you get to the large bore gauges- over 12--Being able to load down produces real advantages. However, loading UP at that high end, does not damage patterns as does doing this with the small bores. I have a relative who now only hunts with his .28 gauge O/U. But, he is into upland game- mainly quail, or pheasants flushed by his dog. He moved from Illinois, to S. Carolina, down on the coast, and I have not heard if he has bought a waterfowl gun again. He had sold all his other shotguns before he moved from Illinois.

If you can get a 28 Gauge smoothbore, BUILT on a 28 gauge barrel- and not a 20 gauge barrel-- it is truly a sweet gun to shoot. No recoil, and very good patterns out to 25 yards.

 

[MSW]

i agree with Paul- go with a 20 guage... more versatile for true.

 

[Homesteader]

I hope this expands on the topic rather than derails it, but I'm curious: Does anyone know why the 20 ga. became almost the standard for trade guns and fowlers, at least currently?

When I had my fowler built I thought long and hard about it, and wound up going with a 14 bore for various reasons. I'm glad I did, but I still wonder why so many are made in 20.

(I guess the same question could be posed about percussion or centerfire and the 12 ga...) :hmm:

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It's a mystery isn't it? Kind of like why was .45 caliber so popular so long for rifles starting in the 1960s. Especially when the larger bores are really more useful. With shot they can handle light loads or substantial ones that are really overloads in smaller bores.

It may have had something to do with the various early trade guns and fusils having smaller bores and being able to achieve the fusil fin's slim and graceful lines more easily with a small bore. And the tremendous interest in the fur trade era that developed in the 1970s after Jeremiah Johnson was released. And many people who wanted a large bore just bought a Bess or a French musket and used that to hunt with. Barrel stock availability may have had something o do with it too. All this is just conjecture on my part, though. Someone will no doubt be able to give us a definitive answer soon.

 

[tg]

I think the .62 bore became so popular in fusils and trade guns in the last 30 years simply because people didn't know any better about what a particular gun "would" have been in the past.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

That's definitely true. And a lot of North Star trade guns came in 20 bore which influenced folks. The average modern shotgunner knew all about the 20 gauge but had little or no experience with anything smaller. So the 20 gauge muzzleloaders made good marketing sense.

 

[wkndman]

If you can get a 28 Gauge smoothbore, BUILT on a 28 gauge barrel- and not a 20 gauge barrel-- it is truly a sweet gun to shoot. No recoil, and very good patterns out to 25 yards.

OK, Paul, being somewhat new to smoothies and not a gunbuilder, can you expand on how this works, are you saying the heavier walls of the 20 ga barrel are reduced, therefore a lighter gun overaall, I am looking to a petite front end. Is there a large weight difference in design between the trade fusils(Wilson/Fusil de Chasse) and english fowlers? Or am I mixing apples/oranges.Thanks

 

[tg]

I have a fusil which is inlet for the 20 gauge barrel I got the 24 gauge barrel which also fits on the sanme barrel inlet si the 24 guage is a heavier gun the 16 gauge was also available which would have been even lighter than the 20 gauge, it is best to get a barrel that is proportional to the bore size for the least weight, having said that my fusil comes in just under 8 lbs with a 44" barrel and handles very well, with the 16 gauge barrel the gun would likely come in around 7lbs I don't know if that cleared or muddied the waters for you.the Wilson.Ftrench fusil or English fowler can all be made very light at delicate with the right barrel choice and enough wood removed the latter is where first time buiders will often hesitate.

 

[Archer 756]

:hmm: Think about this comment, your a farmer and only have enough money for one weapon, you need one for shoot and round ball. .62cal./ 20ga fits your need !!

 

[paulvallandigham]

I gather you don't understand "gauging ". If I am wrong, I apologize. When we describe a gun as a 28 gauge, that means that 28 balls, the diameter of the bore, will weigh one pound. They are approx. .550 in diameter. A "20 Gauge " barrel means that only 20 balls,the diameter of the bore, weigh one pound. The Bore diameter of a 20 gauge is approx. .615". A 14 gauge is .693" bore. The 16 gauge is .662" diameter. The 24 gauge is .579" bore.

Corresponding calibers( for rifled guns) would be .54 caliber for the 28 gauge; .58 caliber for the 24 gauge; .62 caliber for the 20 gauge; .66 caliber for a 16 gauge; and .69 caliber for the 14 gauge.

In modern gun manufacturing, its common for gunmakers to bore the same OUTSIDE DIAMETER barrel stock for both .410 Bore, and for .28 gauge barrels. In Current ML smoothbore practice, its common for barrel makers to use the same outside diameter barrel stock for both the 20 gauge, and the 28 gauge. Only rarely will you even see a 24 gauge ML shotgun, and they are usually found in Europe.

When the larger diameter barrel stock is used to make a smaller gauge barrel, the walls of the barrel are thicker, and the finished barrel will weigh MORE than when that same stock is used to make the larger gauge barrel.

Its not uncommon to find a 28 gauge half stock fowler that weighs in the 5 lb range, and is very fast to swing on flushing game. But, the barrel has to be made from smaller diameter barrel stock, if the gun is to be that light.