Oil Flints :

[deerstalkert]

I wonder, have you actually tested heat treated chert against Black English or French Amber gun flints in a lock ?

not jbrandon, but i have tested.
i have a TC Hawken that i use for testing flints. if a flint makes it fire it's good to go.
just for S&G's i did a test of how many shots i got from each.
the black English was knapped by Will Lord .
i got 35 pan flashes with it before reknapping.
the heat treated Burlington chert was knapped by some old fart in northern Idaho.
i got 26 pan flashes from it.
notice i say pan flashes. it is a TC Flinter after all.
what i have found is the absolute best domestic chert for this particular rifle is Georgetown Raw.
i am at 20 shots on this flint and each went bang. the spark shower alone it produce's should set off a charge!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I used a different user name on the MLML.

I forget who I was.

 

[JBrandon]

I wonder, have you actually tested heat treated chert against Black English or French Amber gun flints in a lock ?

Yep. I have tried all sorts of flints in flintlocks, and more as strike-a-light flint+steel flints. I routinely heat lots of different materials for knapping. I tell you with assurance that heated flints are not as strong, wear faster. Yes, they will spark if edge and lock are right, but won't last as long.
I see that Deerstalker below has tried more formal experiments with same result.

 

[M. De Land]

Yep. I have tried all sorts of flints in flintlocks, and more as strike-a-light flint+steel flints. I routinely heat lots of different materials for knapping. I tell you with assurance that heated flints are not as strong, wear faster. Yes, they will spark if edge and lock are right, but won't last as long.
I see that Deerstalker below has tried more formal experiments with same result.

Could be that both of you are far more knowledgeable about heat treated and raw chert gun flints than I am but I have not been able to tell any significant difference in spark production or longevity between heat treated Keokuk chert and the English I've bought from TOTW.
I have found novaculite to be pretty brittle although it does spark well.

 

[deerstalkert]

Chert is like women. Red heads react to heat treatment different than Blondes do. ain't even mentioning Brunettes or Raven haired!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have found novaculite to be pretty brittle although it does spark well.

Novaculite is mined in Arkansas. Most is sold for whet (sharpening) stones and is one of the best materials in the world for that purpose. Gunflints made from it do work. But, I one considered selling them as side source of income. Some preliminary market research told me quickly the idea would be a flop. Flint shooters hate them. Second, even the wholesale quantity prices were out of sight. I have a few on hand but mostly keep them as novelties to show occasionally.

 

[DuncNZ]

m

Chert is like women. Red heads react to heat treatment different than Blondes do. ain't even mentioning Brunettes or Raven haired!

The English Knappers called the blackest flints Raven Flints . The Africans did not like grey or spotted flints so the English dyed them black with a secret dye , before they were shipped .

 

[M. De Land]

Novaculite is mined in Arkansas. Most is sold for whet (sharpening) stones and is one of the best materials in the world for that purpose. Gunflints made from it do work. But, I one considered selling them as side source of income. Some preliminary market research told me quickly the idea would be a flop. Flint shooters hate them. Second, even the wholesale quantity prices were out of sight. I have a few on hand but mostly keep them as novelties to show occasionally.

Not being a Geologist I can only test various cherts in my locks and see how long they last and how effectively they spark. I don't have much faith in spark test with strikers as they are not the frizzens in my locks.
I have found that when an edge of what ever material I am testing is set up correctly with a pressure flaker it lasts long and wears well. Most chert I have read has a hardness factor in the 7 realm on the diamond hardness scale of 1-10. The character (tough and ornery or agreeable to percussion tools with long , step free runs) of it is what matters when it comes to working and shaping the particular material. Knapping points using percussion and indirect percussion for spawling and producing bifaces and flakes is my preferred techniques for reduction and then pressure flaking with pointed copper and mild steel for setting up edge profile and finish.
I prefer flakes from point debatage to blade formed gun flints as they are much flatter and easier for cock jaw purchase plus they are left over (waste) from point making and perfect for gun flints.
I have not found heat treated chert to be necessarily more brittle and that it (heat treating) works on some material better than others.
I know much more about what heat does to steel than chert and have no clue if the reaction is the same. The temperature used for heat treating chert would only draw the temper of steel making it less brittle.
From what I can glean from what I've read about heat treated chert is that it does not change much in the hardnes but it certainly, in most cases, becomes more managable to the knapper.
I have been giving out some gun flints of various types to local friends that shoot flint guns and have been asking for their comments and comparisons to flints they buy so as to get a better base of comparison. The feed back should help me learn more about what is true and what is theory.

 

[Winterhawk]

Another ex-MLMLer here!

~Winter Hawk~

 

[DuncNZ]

Another ex-MLMLer here!

~Winter Hawk~

We are the how , why and what of here, there and every where .

 

[Rifleman1776]

The chert/flint discussions have been going on since man began walking upright. Contact any expert source, such as your state geology department, for clarification. The only difference between chert and nodule flint is how it is found in the earth. Chert is flint but not all flint is chert. I believe the confusion from the observations that a lot of the chert is very low quality but that does not mean it is not flint. Let the rocks fly.........

 

[FishDFly]

You do know that 21ST Century is superior to 18th Century flint, it's newer and has not been exposed to the elements outside.

 

[M. De Land]

The chert/flint discussions have been going on since man began walking upright. Contact any expert source, such as your state geology department, for clarification. The only difference between chert and nodule flint is how it is found in the earth. Chert is flint but not all flint is chert. I believe the confusion from the observations that a lot of the chert is very low quality but that does not mean it is not flint. Let the rocks fly.........

Well all any of us can do is experiment and go with what we know at present ever ready to change our thinking with new and better evidence emergence.

 

[MAC1967]

I have a friend who has been a muzzleloading builder and shooter for decades . . he keeps some of his flints in a jar filled with water. I haven't asked why.

 

[springfield art]

What ever flint you use just don't get caught knapping

Grooooan!

 

[springfield art]

I have a friend who has been a muzzleloading builder and shooter for decades . . he keeps some of his flints in a jar filled with water. I haven't asked why.

Flint is not likely to absorb water; I can't think of any reason to do this; I hope it doesn't devolve into an never-ending thread like the "Lube" issue did. The flint's job is to scratch off a minute shower of sparks of steel from the frizzen. It's the steel that glows hot and sets off the powder. Flint spent millions of years in the Earth before being taken up by humans millennia ago. Why anyone would think putting it in water or oil or a refrigerator is beyond comprehension.

 

[FishDFly]

Been reading here for 17 years and the discussion of soaking flints has been going on that long at least and do not see and end in sight.

Reason the Indians did not, was they did not have refrigerators, Eskimos kept them in their igloo in a walrus stomach, which was full of water.

 

[LongWalker]

Why anyone would think putting it in water or oil or a refrigerator is beyond comprehension.

Pretty simple, really. So you can find them!

I'm "in the process" of moving, having lived in the same house for 25 or so years. In packing, I've run across a few musket flints. Some Brit flints I got at Western in '87, some French amber flints I swapped in to in '91, some from Missouri chert from a guy on the ALR forum, even some of the sawn agate flints from an MLML group buy. These were all safely stored in about 40 locations.

I gave away my Bess, and all the musket flints I thought I had on hand, a decade ago.

Ah, but rifle flints took me 2 minutes to gather! Old-style large Siler Brit flints from the jar of oil on the shop shelf (water would freeze). French pistol flints and Brit flints for the Chambers late Ketland from the top shelf in the refrigerator. My emergency stash of a dozen of each size in heat-treated novaculite from behind the Makers Mark in the cabinet.

 

[Metalshaper]

My bud in Warsaw MO can walk out in his yard and pick up what he/they call "ozarkarite"( right or wrong? ) .. I think it's the state rock??

anyway, he brought a small bucket full to a rondy we were at and asked me to try and knap some flints. A lot of them were
grainy and veiny .. one whack and they'd shatter. I was able to work him up a handful of useful flints. He swears he is still
using the first one I handed him??? just remember they sparked like all get out.. against a fire steel or in his lock..

oh , we put a few chucks in the coals of the campfire over night.. to try the heat treat?? most just crumbled into gravel..

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[springfield art]

I have a friend who has been a muzzleloading builder and shooter for decades . . he keeps some of his flints in a jar filled with water. I haven't asked why.

Probably not wise to ask! This is so nuts, you may not want to know.