OK you French gun experts!

[Mike Brooks]

I'm considering a couple french gun projects and am considering using Mike Rowe's french lock on them. Here's the link for a pic.
<<<<French lock picture>>>>
I'm considering a fusil fin ca. 1730's and a fusil de trait ca. 1750's.
This lock looks to be a direct copy of what diederoit(sp?) pictures in his 18th century writings.
How do you folks feel about the styling of this particular lock?
Any one ever use one before? how did it work?
All comments are greatly appreciated.

 

First glance at least, looks like the L&R lock on my fusil. I know a few local people that have French guns from Caywood using that lock and they have been happy with them, but no details....The other post here is the first negative comment I have heard about Rowe's locks--and it was apparently a converted lock.

 

[skwerl-eater 1]

I have a french gun with the french lock from caywood for 10 years now. I am completely satisfied with it, both in asthetics and function

 

[Henry]

Are you a shooter/hunter or a re-enactor ?

These guns are beautyfull , I would guess that
they shoot even better than the original ever did .
Fine piece , I very well understand that the owner of
such gun would be very proud and happy with them .

Now ... if you are a PC Nazi ( like I try very
hard to be someday ) the fine maple stock ,
with the modern finish , just does not make sense.

A trade gun used to cost a fraction of the price
of a military gun ... make your own conclusion.

 

[Vince N]

Mike,
Thanks for asking about the French lock as I'm also considering using one. Be interesting to view the responses.

 

[robinghewitt]

So you'll be using that pale French walnut, only the vaguest hint of tiger stripe in parts if you are extremely lucky.

Can we assume a pillar fronted trigger bow, and mirror polished iron furniture and barrel if it's civilian? ::

 

[Mike Brooks]

So you'll be using that pale French walnut, only the vaguest hint of tiger stripe in parts if you are extremely lucky.

Can we assume a pillar fronted trigger bow, and mirror polished iron furniture and barrel if it's civilian? ::

Made for the Indian trade and done in brass, tigger guard will have pillars both front and back.

 

[fatboy]

Mike, can't say much about the lock but do they list replacement parts for their locks ? Just curious as to cost and availablilty of parts if repairs are needed for the avg guy to get and repair himself ? Just me thinking but that could be a bad thing ::

 

[danlwhite]

Can't claim to be an expert, but I have a fusil de chasse, walnut stock, with the Tule lock from Track of the Wolf; my hunting partner has a type d with the same lock. Never had any problem with them, and I think they look correct for the gun and time period. I didn't know L&R made a lock that was right for a French fusil, but if I had known it I probably would have used it because I have 3 other flinters with L&R locks-and they are solid, dependable, quick, and good sparkers. :m2c:

 

[benvenuto]

the main problem with the repro french locks available seems to be the lockplate is undersized and the top jaw is not quite the right shape.

also as henry says, the trade guns were of a lower quality than any other french gun - in fact i think I was reading many of them were made from military parts that hadn't passed inspection

i just recieved my copy of russel bouchards "the fusil de tulle in new france" and can't recommend it highly enough

 

[tg]

The only issue I have with those is that they are very small in my opinion, but I guess they probably are scaled to caywoods 41" barrels (VBG)I like the "Tulle" lock TOW offers with the modifications Ravenshear suggested, havinhg said that I have ben told that there were some smallish locks on some originals but I prefer something larger than the ones Caywood offers.....then I am not a French gun expert so probably should not even post......

 

[Okwaho]

Tg, I hate it when you talk that way.Anyway I'm just not a big fan of the Caywood French lock.I looked at all my TM Hamilton{three books} and Russel Bouchard {three books}and considered the measurements.There's another source I haven't checked but I don't expect any revelations.The lengths on the French locks that are shown in inches or centimeters range from 5.51" to 5.97".According to the Caywood catalogue their lock is 5.475"thus they are slightly smaller than the smallest of the other locks which range as long as 5.97". The Rifle Shoppe illustrates two locks.One of which is also shown by Bouchard,"The Fussil de Tulle"and is a very early and is probably a common musket pattern lock.The other is shown on P.92 as #591.It is a St.Etienne lock which measures 6" x 1" 1/16" I would like a littl flatter pan and a little more bulk in the cock. Also I would prefer the back side of the cock between the base and upper gooseneck to be a litle flatter almost like a "D" shape to the back of the cock rather than a deep "U". Look at Hamilton and Bouchard and the guns which are complete and you'll see what I mean.You should also note that the Davis lock is slightly more convex on the bottom line and therefore is slightly earlier.Also note that Tulle guns were not sold to the King after 1741 so that they presumably became trade guns after that date whereas the St. Etienne and other makers produced trade guns from the beginning.Incidentally I think the conversion between inches and centimeters is to divide centimeters by 2.54 to get inches,but I'm no mathematician so maybe one of you folks will correct me if I'm wrong and let us know what's correct.
Tom Patton :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

My last comment was somewhat tongue in cheek as these topics usully ruffle some feathers with those who have allready made a choice....without the research, I spent a lot of time before I chose the Davis "Tulle" lock for my 1720-1730 gun, I think for a later gun the L&R might be as good a choice if not better, I just could not go for the little lock from Caywood though.

 

[Cpl.Parker]

Okwaho,

Your conversion formula is correct. Being from the great white north and having been forced to convert from inches to mm I practice this alot :winking:

Kevin

 

[Stophel]

As I understand it, these French barrels were usually of the 48" variety and very large at the breech. I got to see an American (ca 1810) restock of some late 17th century French gun parts. Iron triggerguard and buttplate with the bulbous, rounded shaped ends. the barrel was FULLY 1 1/4" at the breech with DEEP square proof/maker's marks in the left oblique flat. I am told this is pretty much standard.

R.E. Davis offers a barrel that is supposed to be copied from an original barrel like this. 48" long, 1 1/4" breech. I have been meaning to get one, as it would make an interesting gun, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

The L&R "Trade gun" lock is a dead ringer for many of the early-mid 18th century trade gun locks, but is a bit small.

 

[Okwaho]

From one whose last and only exposure to any form of higher mathematics was high school algebra in 1947,I am truly appreciative.
Tom Patton :thanks:

 

[Trot]

Any opinions on the kit offered by Pecatonica? I have been toying with the idea of getting one as my next project.

 

[tg]

"As I understand it, these French barrels were usually of the 48" variety and very large at the breech."

I also believe many were quite long, though some contract specs according Bouchard call for a 44"- barrel, the thick breech is hard to come by in todays gun kits, the one I got from TOW is 1 1/16 I would have prefered a larger one but at times one must choose between wants and costs, I think the English barrels wwere often around an inch.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Right-o French barrels under 1 1/8" are unknown wether they were fusil de trait or fusil fin. English trage gun barrels were 1". Bettter quality english export fowlers generally were 1 1/8". There are probably exceptions, as there are with everything. Trade gun and fowler barrels ranged in length from 42" to 48".
Overall demensions of todays "french" guns when measured across the stock at the tail of the lock are nearly identical to the old ones., due mainly to the thick bolster of today's modern locks......I guess it all comes out in the wash in the end.....I'd still prefer at least an 1 1/8" breech, but as tg says, you gotta take what you can get.

 

[Vince N]

T.M.Hamilton's book Colonial Frontier Guns state the dimensions from original French guns showing 1 1/4in. breech.The English guns shown have 1in breeches. This book has many dimensions from original guns. It is well worth the $18.00.
I have a Davis 1 1/4 X 48in barrel. They are made by Ed Rayl.